Reply to: Agency Refusing to Pay Me After Leaving Contract with No Notice & No Signed Timesheet

[jmo21]

who ESLE other than the customer can judge your effort's worth??

WOOSH!!

[AnthonyQuinn]

If clients start judging whether my effort is worth what I demand, I'm buggered completely

who ESLE other than the customer can judge your effort's worth??

[AnthonyQuinn]

And on the subject, surely no-one can sue you for breach if you unexpectedly become physically unable to provide the service? Especially, as in with the subbie offer, the OP made a bit of an effort to assist.

they wont sue you. they will sue your company which didnt fall ill.

[AnthonyQuinn]

Assuming this guy is genuine, why shouldnt he get paid?

As I see it, issue 1 - he needs paying.
Issue 2 - strictly speaking hes in breach of contract by leaving.

1 and 2 are separate. If he did the work he should get paid. If the client/agency feel the need to pursue the breach legally thats up to them but they are two separate issues.

This excuse about not adding value in the first week is just bollox. By the rationale then we're all expected to work for free for the first week or two?
Not saying its not cool for the client - I can imagine its caused them hassle but life isnt fair, is it?

Of course, no timesheet makes things difficult I must say.

If it was me I'd :-

1) Gather evidence that I had to at least prove that I did work there.
2) Stop fannying around, send the agency a last warning and if nothing happens, get small claims court claim in (its not expensive).

Chances are agency/client will give up and pay up for the sake of a couple of £K max.

I did once for a one day gig that went bad. Agency/client didnt want to pay. OK not arguing - heres the claim for a couple of £. Court date set, court 1 mile from home (I was on the bench anyway) no skin off my nose I thought it'll be entertaining. They (Agency) tried to threaten me a bit but turned up in court, no surprise they werent there, default judgement to me, got my money 7 days later plus my small claim fees.

If I were the client, I would not pay. I would get no value from a contractor who joined for just a week. In fact the hassle of setting up accounts / emails/ badges / interviews etc would be more. If someone told me beforehand I could get a week of free work I still wouldnt take it.

In my opinion, some of the clients / agents I know would aggressively get after you legally for breach if you sue them through small claims.

[AnthonyQuinn]

I doubt the OP did anything as destructive to the client's systems. More like a plumber came to do a job as he was unloading his tools collapsed in you garden. Would you start threatening to sue him if he didn't finish the job? No you would just get another plumber and wish him well.

you wouldnt pay the original plumber.

[Taita]

Well, within the context of walking out on a contract in the first week it would be hard to argue.

It does raise an interesting question though. If, as a lot of posters bang on about, there is a statement of work with clear deliverables, and after one week there has been no completed deliverable, does the client have recourse under consumer law to claim a full refund as the goods and services are not as described?

(Yes, I know, it's B2B and not consumer)

Consumer law? Is the contractor a retailer, now!!!!

[northernladuk]

As I mentioned earlier, I initially emailed the agency offering a sub and they ignored the question. I also contacted the client directly by email to obtain authorisation of my time worked and they never responded. I was then contacted by the agency instructing me to not contact the client directly again and that they would follow up with them.

Your contract is with the agency not the client so can understand this.

Apart from an update email from the agency a few days ago to say they hadn't heard anything from the client all communications have ceased from them. Their view seemed to be that the client was annoyed and surprised that they were landed with an invoice given the fact I had left and the agency had to evaluate whether my one week's work 'added value. '

Not really surprising this. I think we all guessed this would be the case.

Although you do have a case on paper I can't help think but this one is dead. Everyone but you has moved way beyond this now so it's even harder to resolve. Gotta set yourself a point it's just not worth it or realistic to keep chasing and my guess is that time is about now. Up to you though. Nothing else we can add here.

[malvolio]

To be brutal about this, it's not going to happen now; it's clear you've pissed off the client (perhaps unfairly but they are running a business) so you've lost any sensible leverage. Walk away and get on with your life. If you do get anything, consider it a bonus.

And don't rely on the opt in being effective. To get paid you need proof of work done; read your contract. No proof, no pay.

[ziggystardust]

Agency Refusing to Pay Me After Leaving Contract with No Notice & No Signed Timesheet

Practically speaking, this is probably the OPs best option at the moment based on the limited information provided thus far.

Speak to the client, apologise profusely and offer the sub. If they don't accept then at least the lines of communication remain open and that may be crucial if the agent tries to avoid payment.

As for the agency itself, we wouldn't be surprised if they try and use the "client didn't pay us" line anyway as in our experience most smaller agencies don't realise (or just try to ignore) their obligations under the Employment Regs. If the OP is legitimately "in" then they really haven't got a leg to stand on legally as far as withholding payment goes (see malvolio's post above).

As far as getting in to a protracted and defended legal action, with both the agency and the OP issuing proceedings against each other for their respective claims. It is a real risk insofar as the law certainly allows for the resolution of issues like this. But practically speaking most people realise that in those situations the only people who really make any money are the solicitors involved.

That isn't to say it doesn't happen, but it isn't something we see regularly.

So speak to the client and try and make them happy if possible, then speak to the agent and if your invoice isn't paid as per the terms of the contract then chase as you normally would.




Sorry we were waiting on the OP to come back with more info

As I mentioned earlier, I initially emailed the agency offering a sub and they ignored the question. I also contacted the client directly by email to obtain authorisation of my time worked and they never responded. I was then contacted by the agency instructing me to not contact the client directly again and that they would follow up with them. Apart from an update email from the agency a few days ago to say they hadn't heard anything from the client all communications have ceased from them. Their view seemed to be that the client was annoyed and surprised that they were landed with an invoice given the fact I had left and the agency had to evaluate whether my one week's work 'added value. ' I have been as civil add possible in waiting for further updates but neither of us had mentioned opting in so I'm not even sure the agency know I may have rights to be paid. I have a feeling that this may be a way of brushing me off. I finished there about a month ago and their payment terms are 30 days from submitting an invoice which I did on the 3rd March. What do you mean by me being 'legitimately' opted in? I never signed an opt out form of any description if this is what you refer to, before I was introduced to the client. I also believe that it would be too late to offer a substitute again as alot of time has passed, they would have found someone by now.

[Safe Collections]

You mean The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Business Regulations 2003.

The agency will jump on you using the wrong law in your argument.

Yes, we did. Apologies that was our mistake.

On the plus side it should provide some new material for folks, we were starting to feel a bit done in with all the dunning jokes

[tractor]

.....

You mean The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Business Regulations 2003.

The agency will jump on you using the wrong law in your argument.

This is exactly why you should take legal advice only from Accountants, agents, Internet Experts, Brother-In-Law LAWYERS!

[SueEllen]

Practically speaking, this is probably the OPs best option at the moment based on the limited information provided thus far.

Speak to the client, apologise profusely and offer the sub. If they don't accept then at least the lines of communication remain open and that may be crucial if the agent tries to avoid payment.

As for the agency itself, we wouldn't be surprised if they try and use the "client didn't pay us" line anyway as in our experience most smaller agencies don't realise (or just try to ignore) their obligations under the AWR. If the OP is legitimately "in" then they really haven't got a leg to stand on legally as far as withholding payment goes (see malvolio's post above).

You mean The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Business Regulations 2003.

The agency will jump on you using the wrong law in your argument.

[TheFaQQer]

1. Follow Dunning (google it)

Interesting that Safe Collection's haven't been on.

They were down WH Smith's buying a dictionary to look that one up

[Safe Collections]

AFAICT so far all communication was done through the agent. For all we know the client is not refusing to pay. Present your story (not the agent's version), eat humble pie, offer a substitute. It might be all too late, we don't know the time line.

Practically speaking, this is probably the OPs best option at the moment based on the limited information provided thus far.

Speak to the client, apologise profusely and offer the sub. If they don't accept then at least the lines of communication remain open and that may be crucial if the agent tries to avoid payment.

As for the agency itself, we wouldn't be surprised if they try and use the "client didn't pay us" line anyway as in our experience most smaller agencies don't realise (or just try to ignore) their obligations under the Employment Regs. If the OP is legitimately "in" then they really haven't got a leg to stand on legally as far as withholding payment goes (see malvolio's post above).

As far as getting in to a protracted and defended legal action, with both the agency and the OP issuing proceedings against each other for their respective claims. It is a real risk insofar as the law certainly allows for the resolution of issues like this. But practically speaking most people realise that in those situations the only people who really make any money are the solicitors involved.

That isn't to say it doesn't happen, but it isn't something we see regularly.

So speak to the client and try and make them happy if possible, then speak to the agent and if your invoice isn't paid as per the terms of the contract then chase as you normally would.

Interesting that Safe Collection's haven't been on.

Was thinking that too.

Sorry we were waiting on the OP to come back with more info

[Contreras]

This is going to be incredibly difficult bearing mind the situation. Is there any legal precedence to force a client in to supplying this?

No, but you can ask.

Getting heavy handed with a client that you've just let down so spectacularly makes me a little uncomfortable ...

Heavy handed? No. Apologetic? Yes.

AFAICT so far all communication was done through the agent. For all we know the client is not refusing to pay. Present your story (not the agent's version), eat humble pie, offer a substitute. It might be all too late, we don't know the time line.

Interesting that Safe Collection's haven't been on.

Was thinking that too.