Reply to: Beginner's question: What am I doing wrong?

[csonakos]

"mrv" and "northernladuk" - both of you gave very sincere advises to this guy.

I got very similar tips from my close friend - it sounded shocking first because I have been working in a permanent role and in a fixed-term contract in the last couple of years.

I guess you need to change your mindset when going from permanent to (real) contracting.

The hardest part for me was to accept the fact that agencies do not reply to your application unless they want to forward it to the client - I kind of assumed that if I made the effort to taylor my CV/cover letter to the advert then they should at least say "we regret to inform you..." or something like that. Unfortunately it is not the case...

So do not give up, listen to the guys on this forum, review your CV and soon you will get your contract role!

Keep us informed about your progress - I will do the same.

[vadhert]

Yes I understand this process and it makes me sad sometimes.
Being a good developer does not always mean being good salesman

When you spend a lot of time with machine you have not much time for getting social skills.

And in normal circumstances learning goes like this: TRY -> FAILURE -> CORRECTIONS -> TRY -> FAILURE -> CORRECTIONS -> TRY -> SUCCESS
On this market it looks like

TRY -> ......... -> TRY -> ...... -> TRY -> I WILL CALL YOU BACK -> .....

It is just flustrating but well - I can not fight this so I must learn to play with it.

Trust me on the above.

I've been doing this long enough to know this.

Its irrelevant of being a good developer or not.

[TheFaQQer]

Have you got a UK phone number for agents to call you on?

[smarcjanski]

This is a permie mindset. I don't know about the Polish contract market but in the UK contractors generally get hired to do a specific job using a specific skill set that the client doesn't have in their own resource pool. By spreading yourself over many disciplines you are not showing you are an expert in any of them. Pick one area and emphasis that on your CV...

Well true - Polish market sometimes (but not always) looks like "hmm we do not know exactly what skills we will need during this project so let's hire someone who can do everything".

I am not expecting anyone to train me. i do it myself well. There was no single team in which I would feal bad with my skills - if I did not know something it took me less then few days to catch
up. Most people spend more time learning code base of the new client. However - this is gard to proove outside of work environment.

[smarcjanski]

It's all in how you sell yourself sir.

The market is tough and you need to stand out from the rest.

Many people here are seasoned contractors with 15+ years solid contracting experience. Knowing from personal experience I sum the recruitment process up in three parts.

1) Selling yourself through a CV is the first part.
2) Selling yourself to the agent is second part.
3) Selling yourself to the client as the ideal candidate is the final part.

Once you begin to master ALL of these then reap the rewards of contracting.

Yes I understand this process and it makes me sad sometimes.
Being a good developer does not always mean being good salesman

When you spend a lot of time with machine you have not much time for getting social skills.

And in normal circumstances learning goes like this: TRY -> FAILURE -> CORRECTIONS -> TRY -> FAILURE -> CORRECTIONS -> TRY -> SUCCESS
On this market it looks like

TRY -> ......... -> TRY -> ...... -> TRY -> I WILL CALL YOU BACK -> .....

It is just flustrating but well - I can not fight this so I must learn to play with it.

[DaveB]

- My skills...
I am kind of person who does not like to dig in one hole for ages. I have noticed one day that employers usually give me only ability to develop my skills to certain level and then my learning curve is going up very slowly and this is not something that suits my need for learning. I also noticed that most developers have some gaps in knowledge. Very good developers sometimes have no idea about networking or databases. This is later on problem for project (lack of ability to tune database and write optimal queries IS a problem). So why not learn databases better? Then someone sees that you know it best from team and they make you Database Architect.
Anyway - long story - I want to know whole landscape not just study one tree for my lifetime.. it should be good (IMO) for contractor however I may be wrong.
I have already noticed that knowing more is a sin sometimes.

Thank you all - I will try to take this advices to my heart, fix what I can and do my best

This is a permie mindset. I don't know about the Polish contract market but in the UK contractors generally get hired to do a specific job using a specific skill set that the client doesn't have in their own resource pool. By spreading yourself over many disciplines you are not showing you are an expert in any of them. Pick one area and emphasis that on your CV. You may know stuff outside that discipline but if, for example, the client wants a .net developer to work on a new application, database admin skills are "nice to have" at best and most likely irrelevent far as the client is concerned.

Learning new skills is always good and it can be useful to have them once you have a job, but if they are not what the client actually wants then they won't help you get a gig to begin with. As a contractor you should not be expecting the client to train you in new skills. It's not in their interest to do so after all. If you get the opportunity to learn on the job, great, but otherwise developing your skills is down to you, not the client.

If there are a couple of areas you feel you are strong in then create different versions of your CV, one for each skill set and be prepared to modify them to match the job spec as required. You don't lie on your CV, but if the clients wants A, B & C then make sure A, B & C stand out, not D, E & F.

EDIT:

And don't underestimate the stupidity of Agents. 99% of them simply look for word matches between the CV and the job spec. They have no clue what they actually mean so make it easy for them and make sure the right words stand out in your CV.

[vadhert]

It's all in how you sell yourself sir.

The market is tough and you need to stand out from the rest.

Many people here are seasoned contractors with 15+ years solid contracting experience. Knowing from personal experience I sum the recruitment process up in three parts.

1) Selling yourself through a CV is the first part.
2) Selling yourself to the agent is second part.
3) Selling yourself to the client as the ideal candidate is the final part.

Once you begin to master ALL of these then reap the rewards of contracting.

[aoxomoxoa]

Best of luck in finding a good role soon.

[smarcjanski]

Thank you - Summary

Thank you for being honest. Seriously it is very refreshing (I must tell you that I have been thinking that this things might be an issue but it is always better to hear it from others).
If you are interested here is my feedback to some things
- I should check my CV
Ok this is fair enough - I am not native (surprise!). In fact I had my CV professionally checked but I have made some modifications maybe not so professional.
- Lack of UK contracting experience.
Well this IMO is only mentality of recruiters but if this is how it is I can't help that. I did a lot of really big things, and i can talk about it all day long however - nobody cares anyway. No hard feelings about that - but this experience is by no means different from what I could get on British market.
- Ok linked in link has its history but it should be changed - sounds weird
- My skills...
I am kind of person who does not like to dig in one hole for ages. I have noticed one day that employers usually give me only ability to develop my skills to certain level and then my learning curve is going up very slowly and this is not something that suits my need for learning. I also noticed that most developers have some gaps in knowledge. Very good developers sometimes have no idea about networking or databases. This is later on problem for project (lack of ability to tune database and write optimal queries IS a problem). So why not learn databases better? Then someone sees that you know it best from team and they make you Database Architect.
Anyway - long story - I want to know whole landscape not just study one tree for my lifetime.. it should be good (IMO) for contractor however I may be wrong.
I have already noticed that knowing more is a sin sometimes.

Thank you all - I will try to take this advices to my heart, fix what I can and do my best

[unixman]

Where you have been in a contract that was renewed, mention the renewal on your CV/linkedin.

[sal]

... Over 10 years experience IMHO should allow me to find something. I did a lot of contracing in Poland for many years, here in UK I was permanently employed for couple of months, but I think I am doing best on contracts.
Yes I have received tens of phone calls but I still ended up with no interviews.
My cv is almost on every job site, I try to apply for only few jobs per day.

My profile can be found here
Linked In
...

Obviously you thought wrong.

Top issues:
- Lack of UK experience
- Lack of UK contractor experience
- Haven't decided what you are, according to LinkedIn profile (with link for the polish version of the website...) you have a history of Developer, DB Architect, Developer, SysAdmin, Developer, pick a career path and stick to it
- I would go out on a limb here and say that your CV is as poor as your LinkedIn profile

Basically there is nothing in you that would make an agent pick you from the huge pile of applications they get for each role.

[mrv]

There are many things that successful candidate is evaluated on. How is your spoken english? Do you have any niche skills, or are you just plain .net developer? Have you worked in some niche markets? How do your rate expectations compare to market average? The fact that you have very limited experience of working in UK does not help IMO.

Regarding phone calls - my experience is that sometimes agents call just to chat or fish for information (how do you find the market? are you busy at the moment? have anything lined up? I have a few leads that will hopefully get approved next week, will definitely call you, etc. etc), or they have a role in mind and then discussion is much more goal-oriented. Which ones do you get? Also, I have found there is no point in calling agents yourself asking about the roles you were promised or spoke about. If there are any news, they will call you, if they don't - there is nothing to talk about.

IMO stay in your current role for at least 2 years, by then you will have a much better understanding about british working culture etc, will have more contacts, more experience and will be able to tell much better where you stand in terms of contracting. It would help if your company was hiring contractors like yourself, then you could talk to them, gain knowlegde, best practises, what works and sells, and what does not. GL

[Eirikur]

You will have to stay longer in your perm role, so recruiters will see you have sufficient UK experience.
I came from contracting abroad to the UK and had a perm job for almost 4 years before becoming a contractor again.

[northernladuk]

Hi guys. I would like to ask you for advice.
I am trying to enter contracting market but I have no luck so far. Worst thing is that I have almost no feedback why.

You have your feedback. With contracting you either get the gig or you don't. Absolute silence after the interview is the only feedback you need. If you get a quote from three builders you don't ring the ones you didn't want with feedback do you? Why would an agent who is going to make no money from you waste his time to give you pointless feedback.

Over 10 years experience IMHO should allow me to find something.

That is a very dangerous assumption. I would go as far as to say that is actually wrong.

I did a lot of contracing in Poland for many years, here in UK I was permanently employed for couple of months, but I think I am doing best on contracts.
Yes I have received tens of phone calls but I still ended up with no interviews.
My cv is almost on every job site, I try to apply for only few jobs per day.

the number of calls you get and jobs you apply for don't really have bearing on the odds of getting a gig. If something is wrong then it's wrong however many calls you get. You need to find out what point you are failing on. Not having any solid UK contracts when there are 100's of very experienced guys on the bench is probably your biggest problem.

My profile can be found here
Linked In

Am loving the fact the URL has 'Lightworker' on it. That's not gonna help you one bit.

I also have very good references from my current employer.

Absolutely no user whatsoever. Zero, zip, nada. Read the sticky on 2 references in the other area of the forum as well.

I would not mind if I would fail on some interviews or something (I would know what was wrong and I would be able to work on it) but instead I am hitting a wall of silence. Attempts to call recruiters usually ends up with them being on meetings, lunches and never calling back, or answering emails... I would not even mind if they would tell me that they are not hiring polish swan eaters (joke) - nothing like that just polite silence .

Welcome to the cut and thrust of contracting. If you don't like this you are gonna have a miserable time contracting.

Maybe I am not used to UK's market but I can imagine it should be example for rest of the Europe... somehow I am unable to see that

Absolutely no idea what this is supposed to mean.

[jmo21]

here in UK I was permanently employed for couple of months

Did you quit to try contracting?

It may be that this looks a little weird on your CV, your first job in the UK, permanent, and only 2 months.