Reply to: Client requests weekend work

[redgiant]

I don't think anyone's suggesting that at all. Travel arrangements should always be agreed with your client in advance to allow you to plan accordingly. If a client suddenly decides the same day that they need you somewhere else, and you've used public transport then I would fully expect to charge them the cost of bus/train/taxi to get you from A to B and back again. I'd also have something to say about their lack of forward planning...

Assuming however that you've had advance notice of the travel requirement then it's up to you to make that as cost-effective as you can, but bill them for the travel if it's not to the main client site defined in your contract. If it becomes a regular thing then you may need to decide - as a business - whether it's cost-effective to purchase season tickets or not. I'd consider switching to a shorter-term option, maybe a weekly ticket and trust that you'll get enough notice that you can buy the most appropriate ticket given your personal requirements.

+1 ... saves me having to reply to a question earlier

[Willapp]

But some of you seem to be suggesting that I should be amenable to showing up at client site and then they deciding I should go somewhere else. By this rational, I should never take the train just in case they decide I have to drive somewhere.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that at all. Travel arrangements should always be agreed with your client in advance to allow you to plan accordingly. If a client suddenly decides the same day that they need you somewhere else, and you've used public transport then I would fully expect to charge them the cost of bus/train/taxi to get you from A to B and back again. I'd also have something to say about their lack of forward planning...

Assuming however that you've had advance notice of the travel requirement then it's up to you to make that as cost-effective as you can, but bill them for the travel if it's not to the main client site defined in your contract. If it becomes a regular thing then you may need to decide - as a business - whether it's cost-effective to purchase season tickets or not. I'd consider switching to a shorter-term option, maybe a weekly ticket and trust that you'll get enough notice that you can buy the most appropriate ticket given your personal requirements.

[mankyspanky]

OK. Yes agree the me getting to their main site is not their problem. I agree.

But if Im going to be funny about it then this other site is not listed so Im being flexible agreeing this. If I have to change my plans at short term then thats fine for a one off.

But some of you seem to be suggesting that I should be amenable to showing up at client site and then they deciding I should go somewhere else. By this rational, I should never take the train just in case they decide I have to drive somewhere.

[TheFaQQer]

I think, to be honest, choosing to buy a season ticket for future travel is entirely up to you/ your business.

You can't expect your client to plan his working arrangements around that. Surely?

I agree.

But I don't see the new location as an additional cost - it's a cost outside what was originally agreed. For example, if a client said to me "we need you in Glasgow instead of London this week", I would charge them the travel costs for me to get to Glasgow. I would not charge them the costs of getting to Glasgow minus the costs that I would normally be paying out to get to London.

Ignore what has already been spent / might have been spent and charge them for the new journey.

[Willapp]

Yeah I think there are two issues here:

1) How you choose to get to work is your business. The fact that you've chosen to purchase a season ticket because it's more cost-effective for you, isn't really a concern your client should be bothered about so in terms of sucking up the cost of driving from home to your normal client location, I'd say you need to swallow that one.

However...

2) There's still the issue of your client requesting that you attend an alternative site. Yes opinions will vary but I'd still argue that it's entirely reasonable to expect them to foot the mileage for this, and if you don't make an issue out of it, it *will* set a precedent for them to do it over and over again, and it makes it difficult for you to change your position later.

[JRCT]

If the cost to me were the same then no issue for me. If it was a bit more then no issue, if it was a one-off no issue.

But in this case, for monday, my train is already paid for so if I dont use it then I have extra car costs to original site plus cost to other site. Yeh I agree its not much but where do you draw the line?

I think, to be honest, choosing to buy a season ticket for future travel is entirely up to you/ your business.

You can't expect your client to plan his working arrangements around that. Surely?

[mankyspanky]

Just ask what their mileage rate is for when you put it on your invoice. They'll either give you a rate or tell you not to be silly.

Personally, I'd get the rate and invoice it - you have an agreed location, and they want to change that. That's fine - but don't expect it to be done at my expense.

If you were going to go to the new site by train, would you pay for it yourself or get the client to pay for it? I would charge the price of the ticket, and I see no difference here just because of the method of transport.

If the cost to me were the same then no issue for me. If it was a bit more then no issue, if it was a one-off no issue.

But in this case, for monday, my train is already paid for so if I dont use it then I have extra car costs to original site plus cost to other site. Yeh I agree its not much but where do you draw the line?

[mankyspanky]

This is a new site so only my main site is mentioned in the contract.
If this was a one-off then fair enough but I have a feeling about this that its likely to be more.

Its not just travel from main site to new site on this occasion. Like I said, I've got my season ticket for monday anyway so thats all paid for. In effect, because of this, Ive got to incur the extra expense of driving to main site which I wouldnt have had just so my car is available for me to go to remote site.

Seem to be some differing opinions here.

Not the first time they've done this mind. I did buy a month train season ticket first of all then they asked me to go to another site for a week. It was slightly closer to drive for me but train wasnt an option so I ended up cancelling the season ticket to get a refund and driving that week. Lost probably £10-£15 on the season ticket, and probably cost me a bit more in petrol than it did if I'd stuck with the train (train ticket is cheaper than driving).

I know try and work out how things are going and buy max 1 week train season tickets now just in case I get stuck again.

[Batcher]

Just ask what their mileage rate is for when you put it on your invoice. They'll either give you a rate or tell you not to be silly.

Personally, I'd get the rate and invoice it - you have an agreed location, and they want to change that. That's fine - but don't expect it to be done at my expense.

If you were going to go to the new site by train, would you pay for it yourself or get the client to pay for it? I would charge the price of the ticket, and I see no difference here just because of the method of transport.

+1. If you don't ask, you don't get.

If you suck it up this time, what's to stop them telling you to go to this other site every Monday?

[TheFaQQer]

Now, no mention of expenses at all. Should I bring it up or just suck this one up?

Just ask what their mileage rate is for when you put it on your invoice. They'll either give you a rate or tell you not to be silly.

Personally, I'd get the rate and invoice it - you have an agreed location, and they want to change that. That's fine - but don't expect it to be done at my expense.

If you were going to go to the new site by train, would you pay for it yourself or get the client to pay for it? I would charge the price of the ticket, and I see no difference here just because of the method of transport.

[BlasterBates]

I remember my marketing course.
Rule number 1 the customer is always right.
Rule number 2 the customer is always right.
Rule number 3 if the customer is wrong go back to rule 1.

Obviously you don't want to be taken for a ride but if it was me I wouldn't charge for a one off or piffling amounts. I would see it as marketing, i.e. angling for a renewal.

If you think you can charge and not annoy the client with huge amount of bureacracy that would be totally disproportionate to the amount involved, then no harm in doing that.

[Willapp]

I'd say it's chargeable unless there happens to be anything in your contract/schedule that specifically includes travel to different client sites as part of the agreement.

Some people say why damage relations for the sake of £20 but that's not the point. You're a business and IMO there's a difference between flexibility - staying a bit late, maybe giving casual advice on projects outside your schedule etc - and being taken advantage of. You need to deal with these things head on though, because if you agree to it once then it becomes difficult to charge for it subsequently.

I'd approach your PM and say "look, I understand you need me to travel to X on Monday. As travel to other client sites isn't part of our agreement I will be expensing mileage to/from your main office." Get confirmation in writing that they agree, or if they don't then you don't go.

I think sometimes people feel that their position as contractors are too fragile, but ask yourself is the client really going to bin you for the sake of £20 expenses if you're mid-way through a project?

[Antman]

First off this client is pretty good but they seem very haphazard. Big culture of JFDI here I must admit and sometimes the details get missed out a bit.

Latest is client wants me to be available on monday to drive to another site if needs be. Usually I get the train (and my season ticket is paid for until middle next week) which client knows.
Client is 40 miles from home, other site is another 30 miles. So either way its either an 80 mile trip or 140 mile trip for me on monday - something I wouldnt have to do because ive already paid for train.

Now, no mention of expenses at all. Should I bring it up or just suck this one up? After all - in terms of cost to myself even 150 miles is probably £20 most.
I dont want to come across as pennypincher.

In the past I've worked late to fix things and they've been great about eventually but it is annoying to be put in the situation all the time. Get the feeling though they're the type to get annoyed if they get a contractor who kicks off about every last penny.

What would rest of you do?

I'd suck it up. What's the point of damaging a client relationship over £20?

[PerfectStorm]

What is in your contract? IME you claim for expenses when you are going to a site that isn't named in the contract as the clients main office (where you supply your services). Remember you're running a business not a charity

Would you still do this if the main office isn't specified? I.e. The place where you go every day?

[redgiant]

First off this client is pretty good but they seem very haphazard. Big culture of JFDI here I must admit and sometimes the details get missed out a bit.

Latest is client wants me to be available on monday to drive to another site if needs be. Usually I get the train (and my season ticket is paid for until middle next week) which client knows.
Client is 40 miles from home, other site is another 30 miles. So either way its either an 80 mile trip or 140 mile trip for me on monday - something I wouldnt have to do because ive already paid for train.

Now, no mention of expenses at all. Should I bring it up or just suck this one up? After all - in terms of cost to myself even 150 miles is probably £20 most.
I dont want to come across as pennypincher.

In the past I've worked late to fix things and they've been great about eventually but it is annoying to be put in the situation all the time. Get the feeling though they're the type to get annoyed if they get a contractor who kicks off about every last penny.

What would rest of you do?

What is in your contract? IME you claim for expenses when you are going to a site that isn't named in the contract as the clients main office (where you supply your services). Remember you're running a business not a charity