Reply to: General Terms of new contract

[glippiglop]

I think it might be this ESM2042 - Agency and temporary workers: agency legislation - provisions from 6 April 2014: record-keeping and returns (6 April 2014 onwards)

I notice it references 'individuals' and 'self-employed' people, so contractors running a ltd wouldn't be covered by this legislation I assume.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

"new" Intermediaries legislation?

Do they mean this draft legislation, that may or may not come out until next year?

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...gulations-2015

I think it might be this ESM2042 - Agency and temporary workers: agency legislation - provisions from 6 April 2014: record-keeping and returns (6 April 2014 onwards)

[SueEllen]

It's still in consultation, isn't it?

It closed last week or something.

[Zero Liability]

"new" Intermediaries legislation?

Do they mean this draft legislation, that may or may not come out until next year?

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...gulations-2015

It's still in consultation, isn't it?

[Copt Out]

Had a chat with the agent

I've talked to the agent and apparently this 'Intermediaries Legislation' is a new requirement and they have to pass both public and private sector contract information to HMRC. I've never heard of this before and from what KingCook has posted it sounds like it's not yet a requirement. Hmmmmm. However they are running a lot of the changes that QDOS have recommended past their legal team so I'm waiting to hear back.

Apparently no contractor has ever asked to stay opted in before and the contract has never caused an IR35 related problem in all these years - if I had a penny for every time I've heard that!!! To be fair the agent was very fair when I chatted to him so only time will tell.

[kingcook]

I've just been offered a contract with a government agency and the general terms of the agency involved contain the following clauses:

Under the new Intermediaries legislation we are responsible for making quarterly submissions to
HMRC detailing everyone working with us who is not on a PAYE payroll. This includes your name,
NI number, how much we have paid your Limited Company, how many hours you have worked
and details of how you are being paid. HMRC are then able to cross check your tax records
against what we say has been paid to you.

<snip>

"new" Intermediaries legislation?

Do they mean this draft legislation, that may or may not come out until next year?

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...gulations-2015

[cojak]

You need to tell the agency in the top of your email that that the relationship between you is one of a business to business one not an employee. Then use this as the part of any explanation for any clause that needs to be removed.


Ignore it and then use delaying tactics.

Only if they try not to pay you kick up a stink.

The only time I worked for a agency/consultancy they tried to get me to do all of this reporting/'opportunity' lark. The last straw was when they handed me business cards with their name on them, despite me explicitly telling them not to do this.

I binned the cards and cut the contract short the following week.

[SueEllen]

SueEllen,

I've sent them an email pretty much telling them what you said in the last post. I look forward to their response!

And I bet you will get the phone call:

"Our contracts have been checked out by solicitors and are IR35 compliant blah blah blah blah"

Which really means:

"We have down loaded a template from a website and altered it."

[Copt Out]

SueEllen,

I've sent them an email pretty much telling them what you said in the last post. I look forward to their response!

[SueEllen]

The contract review is an IR35 fail. Sigh - looking forward to trying to get it amended.

The agency also want me to fill out a monthly report to let them know how it's going - it all sounds very big brother this contract.

You need to tell the agency in the top of your email that that the relationship between you is one of a business to business one not an employee. Then use this as the part of any explanation for any clause that needs to be removed.

They've also assumed I'm opting out even though I've said nothing about this and have been introduced to the client.

Ignore it and then use delaying tactics.

Only if they try not to pay you kick up a stink.

[Copt Out]

Just had contract review

The contract review is an IR35 fail. Sigh - looking forward to trying to get it amended.

The agency also want me to fill out a monthly report to let them know how it's going - it all sounds very big brother this contract.

They've also assumed I'm opting out even though I've said nothing about this and have been introduced to the client.

[SueEllen]

Firstly there have been threads on here where agencies have been paying contractors with dissolved companies because they haven't made any additional checks on the company paperwork.

Secondly Clause 12 is meaningless without knowing what is exactly written in the contract.

[BlasterBates]

Look on it this way any IR35 audit will be almost in real time. In some ways by being open like this and put under a magnifying glass at least you'll know you'll be unlikely to be investigated if you get through the contract. HMRC is under a lot of pressure not to let any more IR35 avoiders through the net in the public sector so I imagine there is a high chance someone at HMRC is going to review it.

It looks like the contract is writtenly very honestly and so should reflect working practices.

Still requires a degree of courage to go through with it.

[sunflower]

I've just been offered a contract with a government agency and the general terms of the agency involved contain the following clauses:

Under the new Intermediaries legislation we are responsible for making quarterly submissions to
HMRC detailing everyone working with us who is not on a PAYE payroll. This includes your name,
NI number, how much we have paid your Limited Company, how many hours you have worked
and details of how you are being paid. HMRC are then able to cross check your tax records
against what we say has been paid to you.

Do all agencies do this or is it just for public sector contracts?

12. Please also note, within the IR35 context, the wording relating to rights of substitution in your
Agreement. This is not as broad as some of our competitors but reflects the views of our clients
and the relationships we seek to build with them.

Doesn't sound great - should I push for this to be changed?

I'm having both these terms and the actual contract reviewed by QDOS but just wanted to hear your thoughts!

Never seen this so stringently defined myself, but it's a while since I have seen contract terms for public sector roles and legislation may have changed. You are doing the right thing with the Qudos review. Are you an IPSE (PCG) professional member? Call their advice line if so and check in the meantime. Normally a client or agent should not need to pass this kind of information to HMRC unless there is an IR35 review, or so I was told by an advisor. You should also not be forced to disclose your accounts in the company to a client or agent either.

Re right of substitution, a customer can insist on your replacement having similar skills to the original consultant, but the right of substitution should remain in your contract. Key point for avoiding IR35

[BolshieBastard]

Public sector. Avoid like the plague unless you want to be looking over your shoulder in 5 to 10 years time.