Selling shares

[Craig at Nixon Williams]

It is extremely difficult to put a value on a private company as the shares are not traded on an exchange. The value of the company may not be as simple as net asset value or the nominal value of the shares – to highlight the difficulty in determining a value for the company consider how much you would pay for shares listed on a stock exchange to get dividend income of £30k+ per annum. If the yield on the share was say 4% then you would need to have £750k of shares to get dividends of £30k. However in your case the company would generate no dividends at all if it wasn’t for your involvement in the company.

Craig

[andyc2000]

FWIW, the specialist that valued my company took the average of my last three years net profit after tax, adjusted for director's remuneration and multiplied it by 5. The value of the transferred shares (25% in my case) was then (0.25 * company valuation) * 0.7 (discount due to minority holding).

This resulted in a total gain just within my CGT allowance and therefore did not need to be reported on my self-assessment.

Are you able PM me the details of your specialist? I'm getting the feeling not many people do this after a few years of running the company.

Thanks

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

FWIW, the specialist that valued my company took the average of my last three years net profit after tax, adjusted for director's remuneration and multiplied it by 5. The value of the transferred shares (25% in my case) was then (0.25 * company valuation) * 0.7 (discount due to minority holding).

This resulted in a total gain just within my CGT allowance and therefore did not need to be reported on my self-assessment.

[andyc2000]

If YourCo's Income (Sales) are reliant on you as the fee generator ie your contract value, then the simple value of your company is the Net Asset Value, less any Goodwill, plus the value of your Director's Loan account (if it is in credit).

If YourCo has an income stream independent of your contracts, then any Accountant will be able to value it, with different values depending on the Dividend Yield, Dividend Policy, EPS, NAV and a whole string of variables, not least, by comparison to Companies similar to yours in the same sector.

This is more like it. Net asset value = £1200 (ish). No other income stream - just contract work.

[andyc2000]

This sounds ridiculous.

What kind of value are you expecting to charge your partner? What would be too much?

£1000, £5000, £10,0000?

About £1000?? I don't know - it goes out and back in anyway.

[jmo21]

This sounds ridiculous.

What kind of value are you expecting to charge your partner? What would be too much?

£1000, £5000, £10,0000?

[Scruff]

If YourCo's Income (Sales) are reliant on you as the fee generator ie your contract value, then the simple value of your company is the Net Asset Value, less any Goodwill, plus the value of your Director's Loan account (if it is in credit).

If YourCo has an income stream independent of your contracts, then any Accountant will be able to value it, with different values depending on the Dividend Yield, Dividend Policy, EPS, NAV and a whole string of variables, not least, by comparison to Companies similar to yours in the same sector.

[andyc2000]

Your balance sheet is a good starting point, modified by any goodwill and expected profit from firm orders on the books. You would undoubtedly need to talk to your accountant and legal advisor.

I have spoken to my accountant (SJD) - who couldn't help much more, they didn't seem to think it is an issue - just need to cover all the bases.

If I just use the profit from my SA then the company value is something like 240K (as if). But last year, after dividends I had residuals of 0. Not sure someone would pay 240k for that!

What I'm really after is a recommendation for a firm to provide a proper valuation - my account couldn't recommend one.

Also the person I'm paying the dividend to essentally gets £1000 which she spends on herself and then another £1000 for her half for the household expenses (and she owns 50% of the house, so thats fair is it not?). My thinking is: 'why should I pay tax on a divi I make no use of, the person who uses should pay tax on it'.

[tractor]

...

So an arbitury ammount? What of the opinion of getting it 'properly valued'...

Your balance sheet is a good starting point, modified by any goodwill and expected profit from firm orders on the books. You would undoubtedly need to talk to your accountant and legal advisor.

[BlasterBates]

How much profit does your co. make?

basically that would be (very roughly) 8% of the worth of the company, i.e. average returns with little or no growth

i.e. Company profit 1000 pounds, company value roughly 12000 pounds.

Roughly.

However if you are paying high dividends every year then that might be a basis.

Thing is you would need to declare this as Capital Gains depending on how much capital you have invested.

I don't know whether it's permissible to sell at a nominal 1 pound value.

You need to speak to your accountant about this I think, sounds like a "can of worms".

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Regardless of settlements legislation, you'll need to have it valued to calculate any CGT liability you might have.

Speak to your accountant, mine engaged a specialist to have this done for me (my former accountant didn't even mention it). It's not an exact science but you'll be expected to show your working if HMRC enquire.

There's s good chance that after applying your personal allowance there is only a small gain and any gain should be eligible for ER.

[andyc2000]

£1 share, two ways. I reckon she owes you 50p.

So an arbitury ammount? What of the opinion of getting it 'properly valued'...

[MarillionFan]

Anyone recommend a company to value my ltd?

I'm thinking of selling my parter some shares (we are not married).

I guess settlements legislation can apply, but as she spends half the dividends anyway I thought this approach my be practical.

I see different advice on this but, shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, is this OK as long as she is spending the dividend solely for herself? I don't plan to make her an employee and get her to do any 'admin' work...

£1 share, two ways. I reckon she owes you 50p.

[andyc2000]

Anyone recommend a company to value my ltd?

I'm thinking of selling my parter some shares (we are not married).

I guess settlements legislation can apply, but as she spends half the dividends anyway I thought this approach my be practical.

I see different advice on this but, shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, is this OK as long as she is spending the dividend solely for herself? I don't plan to make her an employee and get her to do any 'admin' work...