Reply to: Have you ever terminated a contract JUST for the money?

[psychocandy]

I am not having a go because my instincts are with you so I turned the issue around.

Say I had commissioned a small builder to build a conservatory and I had promised it to the family for Xmas. Grandparents and cousins visiting for the duration and we need the extra room. Builder then pulls out because better job offered and no time to get somebody in to complete the work.

Understanding? No I would be wanting to tear his head off and shout down the hole!

Then you'd make sure that the contract with the builder said this i.e. no option for the builder to walk away early.
If you agree to put a clause in there that they can terminate (or you can) part way through the work then thats your fault isnt it?

Think about it:-

Client: OK, we want you here for six months without a notice to leave.
Contractor <thinking>: Hmm what if it turns out to be crap - Im stuck.
Client: We'll pay premium rate.
Contractor: OK deal.

But what happens in reality iis:-

Client: Heres the rate, take it or leave it.
Client <thinking>: Better leave this notice clause in there otherwise they'll want a better rate. Anyway, these contractors are so dull they've got this stupid idea in their head that they cant invoke a legal clause in their contract. But we'll leave it there so I can get rid of them if I run out of cash as well!

And then they throw a wobbler when it happens...

[Taita]

I haven't. I would only consider it if it were a LOT more money - some niche speciality compared to a regular coding role - and to be honest in that situation I'd rather expect the client to understand when I explained to them.

I am not having a go because my instincts are with you so I turned the issue around.

Say I had commissioned a small builder to build a conservatory and I had promised it to the family for Xmas. Grandparents and cousins visiting for the duration and we need the extra room. Builder then pulls out because better job offered and no time to get somebody in to complete the work.

Understanding? No I would be wanting to tear his head off and shout down the hole!

[worzelGummidge]

Yes.

Accepted a contract during a bit of a downturn about eight years or so ago after going through the costs very, very carefully. The role way away from home and not very high a rate. £200 per day I think.

Stuck it out for 4 months but the contract was actually costing me money.
It was a strange 12 hour shift thing where there was lots of time off.

Decided to abandon ship due to the costs issues one month before the end.

Have not regretted it as it was just financially crazy but thought that I could make it work but I couldn't.

Left another contract when due to renew as the rate was (low: £250) after requesting an increase.
Client not really bothered as only 25% of the people there did any work anyway.
I was one of the "workers" but the client was not bothered.

[easyrider]

I'm in a similar position ie being offered a small rate rise but 30miles closer. My previous 2 contracts were terminated early and both clients stuck to the notice period but in one case their contract with endco was axed. If you're previous gigs have been extended then you're CV is going to stand up but if like me the last few gigs cut short then it may be better to be cautious. The agent will not be pleasant if you switch after 3 weeks that's for sure. But 30% I'd go for it.

[BolshieBastard]

IF you ascertain that your client is the type that would do that without just cause. Not all would.

Absolute tosh! They'll all ditch you without a second's thought if it suits their bottom line more than the benefits of keeping you.

[oilyrag]

I have done this and returned to the customer I ditched for a later gig.

As I view MyCo a business with shareholders (wife and kids) it is my responsibility to ensure they receive maximum shareholder value.

[PerfectStorm]

What bollocks.

The number of posts on here where people say you have to look after your 'shareholders' blah blah blah is testement to the conflicting advice dished out.

I wouldnt advocate jumping ship for another 20 or 30 quid a day but seeing as we are talking 30%, then yes, anyone who stays put because they want to honour a contract the client would have no whims terminating and walking you off site, need their business accumen investigating.

IF you ascertain that your client is the type that would do that without just cause. Not all would.

[BolshieBastard]

The point people are making is simple. Sticking to number one means to honour your contract.

What bollocks.

The number of posts on here where people say you have to look after your 'shareholders' blah blah blah is testement to the conflicting advice dished out.

I wouldnt advocate jumping ship for another 20 or 30 quid a day but seeing as we are talking 30%, then yes, anyone who stays put because they want to honour a contract the client would have no whims terminating and walking you off site, need their business accumen investigating.

[Tasslehoff]

I have been tempted but I feel that in the long run, the good feelings between you and clients/agents and possible return business will be worth more than a slight hike in pay.

YMMV

[psychocandy]

Where as some of this is quite true it is only true in a very small number of cases. You are, as usual, tarring every client with the same brush. A vast majority of contracts come to end properly and the client/contractor honours the notice periods. It's only in a very small number of cases does the client walk contractors. I would argue that there are many more contractors that screw the client over than vice versa so it's hardly surprising a client would consider the same.

Looking at the forums over the years the reasons for getting walked seem to be...
Performance - Everyone thinks they do a good job, sometimes they just don't and they get walked. Two sides to every story
Budget/End of work/No more work - We are flexible resource, if a client runs out of money then that's that. Sod all we can do about it.
Sheer bloody mindedness for reasons we don't know - This happens extremely rarely and tulip just happens sometimes. Contractors do it often enough.

And again, compared to the number of contracts where notice periods are honoured terminations without notice are very rare. To tar every client with the same brush and say they are all deviously putting notice in without any intention of honouring it is a) bloody stupid, b) unprofessional and c) simply not true.

I do wish clients would use the contract to do it properly though. If they don't cancel the notice and just don't give work to the contractor so no signed timesheets and let the contract expire as per the notice period then there wouldn't be all this bad feeling. Saying that it would probably start another set of arguments off and could be even worse as they would be much more willing to pull this stunt and we would be a lot worse off.

Not saying that clients put notice in with no intention of honouring. What Im saying is that if clients sign up for a contract with notice period in for contractor then they can't moan if it gets invoked.

If its such a big issue that contractor cant give notice then negotitate it out and pay extra if needs be.

[jamesbrown]

You are, as usual, tarring every client with the same brush.

A lot of this is going depend on your position within the market. If you can be replaced quickly and cheaply, the client relationship is weighted towards the client and your world-view is likely to be different. If you're a specialist that cannot be replaced quickly and cheaply, you have more leverage, but also more responsibility, because it's a smaller market and reputation travels. In other words, while we're all dispensable to a degree, a lot of the cross-discussion here is just coming at this from different world views, based on personal experience and position within the market.

[northernladuk]

I really never understand this thing about not giving notice. If its in the contract then IMHO its fine for both sides to use. Its a contract - it defines the business relationship. If you want to feel guilty and pick and choose which parts of the contract you like then crack on. Clients wont when it suits them.

For a client to moan that a contractor invokes it, or vice versa is out of order. If you don't want it in the contract in the first place, then negotiate.

I've been put forward for gigs where there was no notice period at all for contractor, but client wanted one week. Rate was excellent though to make up for it. If rate had been poor, then client knew full well that this no notice requirement would put people off. If you want specifics in a contract like this, then Im sorry you're going to have to pay for it.

Trouble is at the moment clients think they can pay average rates and leave the notice period in so as not to scare anyone off. Then, if they need to invoke they will do, and won't give a monkeys. But Im sure some know that a lot of contractors out won't invoke so they're safe, which is why so many moan and whinge if and when it happens.

Im sorry but I don't go for this 'see it through - never invoke notice' crap. All you're doing is sticking to the contract.

(Additionally, though I would say its best to think this through carefully if you do it. Never good to do it too often because regardless of the above there will be consequences for future work from client. But, bottom line, look after number one).

Where as some of this is quite true it is only true in a very small number of cases. You are, as usual, tarring every client with the same brush. A vast majority of contracts come to end properly and the client/contractor honours the notice periods. It's only in a very small number of cases does the client walk contractors. I would argue that there are many more contractors that screw the client over than vice versa so it's hardly surprising a client would consider the same.

Looking at the forums over the years the reasons for getting walked seem to be...
Performance - Everyone thinks they do a good job, sometimes they just don't and they get walked. Two sides to every story
Budget/End of work/No more work - We are flexible resource, if a client runs out of money then that's that. Sod all we can do about it.
Sheer bloody mindedness for reasons we don't know - This happens extremely rarely and tulip just happens sometimes. Contractors do it often enough.

And again, compared to the number of contracts where notice periods are honoured terminations without notice are very rare. To tar every client with the same brush and say they are all deviously putting notice in without any intention of honouring it is a) bloody stupid, b) unprofessional and c) simply not true.

I do wish clients would use the contract to do it properly though. If they don't cancel the notice and just don't give work to the contractor so no signed timesheets and let the contract expire as per the notice period then there wouldn't be all this bad feeling. Saying that it would probably start another set of arguments off and could be even worse as they would be much more willing to pull this stunt and we would be a lot worse off.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

<cough>

You should go and see your doctor and perhaps get the flu jab. Don't want to many days off during the winter. Will cost you 1000s. Look after number one ;-)

[northernladuk]

Ultimately it will come down to a question of who is more reliant on whom.

Exactly. This is a supplier to client relationship. It isn't a 50/50 playing field. Doesn't mean they have free reign to roll over contractors but still, there are distinct differences. Purse strings and all that.

[northernladuk]

The point people are making is simple. Sticking to number one means to honour your contract.

<cough>