Reply to: Confused - Indemnity, public liability, IPSE etc?

[TheFaQQer]

Didn't know that, I thought they mainly suggested amendments, but then I've not gone through their complete service.

Actually, looking on the website, they will do it as part of the £40 service - I guess it's only if you are using their free service that they don't do it.

[Zero Liability]

So will Qdos as part of their complete IR35 contract review service.

Didn't know that, I thought they mainly suggested amendments, but then I've not gone through their complete service.

[BolshieBastard]

Ok, I'm quite confused with this.

I already have 'Full IR35 Contract Review' with QDOS, I also need Public Liability and Indemnity, but I'm not sure whether to get it with QDOS or B&C people say B&C negotiate the contract on your behalf (http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...-clause-2.html), I think thats quite good. But then QDOS website has all the prices and seems all the more professional (doesn't meant its better service than B&C).

Or even use IPSE/PCGs for these services.

So I'd like opinions on a) which people have used and think is better b) what else should I be looking to get (apart from indemnity and public liability).

I guess what I'm really looking for is a list of things people consider necessary and then a list that are recommended?

Qdos is essentially an insurance seller who have branched out into contract review service.

B&C are essentially taxation experts offering contract reviews.

I got my insurance from Qdos but contract reviews from B&C.

[Contreras]

If you use a sub you will need it, it's mandatory for any worker under your control which a sub will be.Obviously you don't have to buy it until you need it,but since it costs fourpence as part of a bundle why not have it and be covered?

Thank you.

[TheFaQQer]

I think it's more that B&C will negotiate to get the contract changed on your behalf, if it requires amendment.

So will Qdos as part of their complete IR35 contract review service.

[malvolio]

It's a fairly speculative argument, not based on any statement or guidance from HMRC that I know of, or case law. It's repeated on here every now and then (by the same poster) with no facts to back it up. Even the IR35 insurers do not use this line in marketing their products. As for "wishful thinking", they (HMRC) probably haven't thought of it yet.

If you use a sub you will need it, it's mandatory for any worker under your control which a sub will be.Obviously you don't have to buy it until you need it,but since it costs fourpence as part of a bundle why not have it and be covered?

[Zero Liability]

So it would seem the logic is that indemnity and public liability are from QDOS because prices are decent and IPSE+ membership is cheaper than getting all the individual insurances (I really only care about HMRC checks - after all the horror stories I hear!). And B&C are better at reviewing contracts.

Would that be your logic?

What insurance/products other than the two I mentioned to you have from QDOS?

I think it's more that B&C will negotiate to get the contract changed on your behalf, if it requires amendment.

[Contreras]

There is a certain argument that if you haven't got employer's liability insurance, then any reference in the contract to a right of substitution is a sham because you wouldn't be insured to exercise it.

Whether that holds water or not, I don't know, or whether it is just HMRC wishful thinking.

It's a fairly speculative argument, not based on any statement or guidance from HMRC that I know of, or case law. It's repeated on here every now and then (by the same poster) with no facts to back it up. Even the IR35 insurers do not use this line in marketing their products. As for "wishful thinking", they (HMRC) probably haven't thought of it yet.

[rashm2k]

IR35 contract reviews and Insurance are completely separate things. Also you get contract reviews on a contract-by-contract basis (provided by B&C/QDOS/Lawspeed) versus yearly payments for insurance (provided by QDOS/Randell Dorling). IPSE is different again. With IPSE+ subscription they provide insurance against IR35 and jury service.

I have IPSE+ membership, use QDOS for insurance and Bauer & Cottrell for contract reviews.

So it would seem the logic is that indemnity and public liability are from QDOS because prices are decent and IPSE+ membership is cheaper than getting all the individual insurances (I really only care about HMRC checks - after all the horror stories I hear!). And B&C are better at reviewing contracts.

Would that be your logic?

What insurance/products other than the two I mentioned to you have from QDOS?

[SueEllen]

Makes sense, but you don't tend to get a whole year travel insurance policy when you know you're only going away for 2 weeks of the year. Presumably it would make more business sense to only obtain insurances at the point that they are needed (i.e. when you look to sub-contract, then you get insurance for it for the duration required).

WSOS

Due to the internet you can actually obtain a quote for, and buy employers liability insurance within 24 hours and often quicker.

So I consider that a non-argument for the majority of IT contractors.

[SpontaneousOrder]

There is a certain argument that if you haven't got employer's liability insurance, then any reference in the contract to a right of substitution is a sham because you wouldn't be insured to exercise it.

Whether that holds water or not, I don't know, or whether it is just HMRC wishful thinking.

Makes sense, but you don't tend to get a whole year travel insurance policy when you know you're only going away for 2 weeks of the year. Presumably it would make more business sense to only obtain insurances at the point that they are needed (i.e. when you look to sub-contract, then you get insurance for it for the duration required).

[TheFaQQer]

The minute you have a subcontractor/employee you need employers liability insurance.

There is a certain argument that if you haven't got employer's liability insurance, then any reference in the contract to a right of substitution is a sham because you wouldn't be insured to exercise it.

Whether that holds water or not, I don't know, or whether it is just HMRC wishful thinking.

[SueEllen]

Generally you will need professional liability plus business use on your vehicles if you have to drive to client sites and your home contents/buildings provider needs to cover you for working from home. The last two you should have no problem in obtaining and it won't cost you much extra unless you are under 25, thanks to the increase in the number of self-employed people in general and the fact that working in IT you are unlikely to store goods in your house.

In regards to other insurance it depends.

Public liability and other insurance depends on your client(s) and whether you have subcontractors and employees. The minute you have a subcontractor/employee you need employers liability insurance. However public liability and employers liability should be brought together as it's cheaper. Employees are less likely to sue you than the public so you will find that most of your policy cost goes towards this.

[Zero Liability]

Don't forget Accountax/AbbeyTax for IR35 reviews and insurance. They offer their IR35 TLC insurance on a one off, upfront cost basis (based on the value and length of contracts involved) and then an on-going annual fee to cover defence fees and are discounted for IPSE members. In practice, all these firms are very good at what they do.

[cojak]

Ok, I'm quite confused with this.

I already have 'Full IR35 Contract Review' with QDOS, I also need Public Liability and Indemnity, but I'm not sure whether to get it with QDOS or B&C people say B&C negotiate the contract on your behalf (http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...-clause-2.html), I think thats quite good. But then QDOS website has all the prices and seems all the more professional (doesn't meant its better service than B&C).

Or even use IPSE/PCGs for these services.

So I'd like opinions on a) which people have used and think is better b) what else should I be looking to get (apart from indemnity and public liability).

I guess what I'm really looking for is a list of things people consider necessary and then a list that are recommended?

IR35 contract reviews and Insurance are completely separate things. Also you get contract reviews on a contract-by-contract basis (provided by B&C/QDOS/Lawspeed) versus yearly payments for insurance (provided by QDOS/Randell Dorling). IPSE is different again. With IPSE+ subscription they provide insurance against IR35 and jury service.

I have IPSE+ membership, use QDOS for insurance and Bauer & Cottrell for contract reviews.