Reply to: Finding out agency cut - wish I didnt know now! Never ends well.

[DiscoStu]

You should speak to Frank Big Bird. I'm sure his crack team of lawyers could get you meeeeeelions.

[TheFaQQer]

Well no he's a lying pimp, if you want to be technical. I'm not seeing where the professionalism is for the pimp to state he's making almost no money when he's making well over the industry average. For every week you work he's pocketing one day of your money.

Alternatively, for every week you work, you're taking 80% of his money. If it was your money, you'd be out there getting 100% of it, and not relying on a pimp to do it. If you have to use an agency, then you need to understand how they work rather than moaning when they manage to haggle you down on the cut that you get.

So your view is that,

1. He's a good negotiator?
2. You shouldn't ask what rate you are on?

Pretty much, yes. If I'm happy with the rate, then I don't care what percentage he's taking. I have never asked an agent what percentage they are taking. Once told me that she was on a fixed 10% rate once, and when I looked at the invoices, they were actually on 12.5%. Maybe I should have kicked up a fuss about how they had lied to me, but I really, honestly didn't care - they had got me the highest rate that I'd been on.

My view is that he's a scumbag and eventually the client will work this out and they will lose the relationship. I don't get this view that somehow pimps only lie to the contractor, they lie to both parties. Just accepting this as the norm is not something that I do, if that's "hating" then so be it.

They are only lying to the client if the client says "how much are you taking?" and they dishonestly answer, or they have a fixed rate agreement and they don't stick to that. I don't see how if an agent agrees a rate with the client and another one with the contractor, they are lying to the client at all.

[TheFaQQer]

most would call him a good agent who has pulled the wool over some silly bastards head.

Well no he's a lying pimp, if you want to be technical.

Tom-ay-to, tom-ah-to.

[northernladuk]

Well no he's a lying pimp, if you want to be technical. I'm not seeing where the professionalism is for the pimp to state he's making almost no money when he's making well over the industry average. For every week you work he's pocketing one day of your money.

If you put it that way they yes but an agent not telling the whole truth and trying to pull the wool over the contractors eyes is hardly new. We should assume they are on the take every time their lips move and so enter the negotiation. It's their job so as much as it's annoying you can't blame them. Just have to play it hard and be happy with the rate you take. If he gets too much and you find out then nail him to the wall next renewal. You negotiate a rate you are happy with and get on with the gig. If you find out he's pulled a fast one you screw him at next renewal.

So your view is that,

1. He's a good negotiator?
2. You shouldn't ask what rate you are on?

My view is that he's a scumbag and eventually the client will work this out and they will lose the relationship. I don't get this view that somehow pimps only lie to the contractor, they lie to both parties. Just accepting this as the norm is not something that I do, if that's "hating" then so be it.

1. Yes and no. Depends on what side of the fence you are on. If he works for you he's good, if you are being screwed over by him then he's a scumbag. Either way, he got the contractor to accept when the contractor had a choice.
2. I am not sure I said that. Sometimes ignorance is bliss if you are happy but on the flip side it can be good ammo for the next renewal or a lesson for the future. I do know finding out and then crying and let it potentially ruin the gig you are in is not the thing to do.

[TheFaQQer]

LOL. I like moaning.

But of course, I wake up every morning, and am happy in the knowledge im not a miserable sod like some of you lot!

[jamesbrown]

LOL. I like moaning.

There's a forum for that.

[sal]

Its not professional IMHO to ask client this sort of thing though. Its their business at the end of the day.

It depends on how you approach this. Going to the financial/managing director first thing the morning you arrive on site is obviously a bad choice.

If you work on projects it's easy enough to get your hands on quotes for the man hours for instance. After 3-6 months in a role i'm usually friendly enough with the middle management to ask the question directly and no, i don't consider this bad business. Bad business is getting ripped off by the middleman for 20-30% of what is paid for your services.

[northernladuk]

I don't believe there is anything that PC does in the contracting world that he writes about on here that makes him happy.

Writing about it appears to make him happy... if that makes sense...

[psychocandy]

LOL. I like moaning.

But of course, I wake up every morning, and am happy in the knowledge im not a miserable sod like some of you lot!

[TheFaQQer]

But he was. It says in B&W here...

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post1983365

I don't believe there is anything that PC does in the contracting world that he writes about on here that makes him happy.

[northernladuk]

You assume he was happy with the rate beforehand. At least this is a new one from the OP - I got a 10% increase and it's not enough, I'm not happy.

Is this the start of a worrying trend?

But he was. It says in B&W here...

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post1983365

Is now plus 10% rate rise. Luverly.

[TheFaQQer]

The rate hasn't changed since you found out the agent's cut. Concentrate on the fact that you were happy enough with it before you knew and forget about it for a few months.

You assume he was happy with the rate beforehand. At least this is a new one from the OP - I got a 10% increase and it's not enough, I'm not happy.

Is this the start of a worrying trend?

[northernladuk]

This one in particular is the biggest twat Ive met in my life - for a number of reasons.

Possibly but he thinks you are the best thing since sliced bread

Instead of avoiding him, which you can't if he is dealing with the gig you want, learn to play him and negotiate instead. Avoidance isn't the only way out of this.

[psychocandy]

Just a question. Who do you blame for this situation?



Problem is you hate agents, well in fact everyone, so these types of situations will always end up winding you up as they are usually damned already. You call him a cheeky twat, most would call him a good agent who has pulled the wool over some silly bastards head. He's pulled this off twice and got away with it. Maybe he is good at his job and you are crap at negotiating. Your carrying on without sorting the contract will have told the agent what he needs to know about you and has rightfully had you over a barrel.

Now you have the task of getting over yourself and your hatred of agents and see if you can act professionally and continue to carry out the gig that you agreed to in a calm and professional manner. Either that or let it nark you every day so further solidifying your poor attitude towards clients and agents and potentially completely ruin the gig that you might have been happy in not knowing this...

Your choice old boy..... but I will be expecting the raft of moaning mails over the next few months....

<<sigh>>

Yes it is my fault a little for getting stitched up but Im sure Im not the first....

I hate 'most' agents. One or two are ok. This one in particular is the biggest twat Ive met in my life - for a number of reasons. But give him his due hes a clever ****er. His methods work for extracting the most he can from the situation but I would argue that it doesnt work with a long term business relationship.

Im not the only contractor who knows of this guy and like others will avoid if I can in future. There are others who I'd gladly work through again. Short term gain and all that....

And BTW - I never worked without a contract.

[TheFaQQer]

Your choice old boy..... but I will be expecting the raft of moaning mails over the next few months....

KUATB