Reply to: No-deal import logistics?

[meridian]

No-deal import logistics?

I tried that with tobacco, and guess what. It didn't work...

That’s because of the first part of my comment :-)

A carton of cigarettes (200 ciggies) is, what, £80? Take 20% VAT off, then take roughly £50 excise duty off:

Tobacco Products Duty rates - GOV.UK

Duty rate from 00:01am 20 May 2017
Cigarettes£207.99 per 1,000 cigarettes plus 16.5% of retail price

A carton of duty free should, if it is truly duty free, be around £10.

It’s not. Because although excise duty is charged and returned by the retailers, there’s nothing to stop them increasing their retail margin.

If you pay £60 in “duty free” for a carton instead of £80, it’s because the retailer is making a 600% markup on their usual retail margin.

Edit: the vast majority of cigarettes in the U.K. are imported anyway......

[Mordac]

See if you can find the draft schedule somewhere on here:
WTO | 2018 News items - United Kingdom submits draft schedule to the WTO outlining post-Brexit goods commitments

“Duty free” is essentially a meaningless phrase, retailers don’t just take the duty off and sell a product for the retail margin. Just think of them as “slightly cheaper goods”. But do the currency calculations first to see if they really are cheaper. And then compare over the course of a year to see if you save more on your two or three trips to the continent bringing back a couple of litres, compared to ordering a case of wine every week or two direct from the EU producers and having it imported tariff free anyway.

I tried that with tobacco, and guess what. It didn't work...

[meridian]

Good point, I'll take a look.

More generally, do we KNOW what import duty rates and so on will default to in the event of a hard edit? For that matter, how much duty free booze we can bring in from the Eurozone?!

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See if you can find the draft schedule somewhere on here:
WTO | 2018 News items - United Kingdom submits draft schedule to the WTO outlining post-Brexit goods commitments

“Duty free” is essentially a meaningless phrase, retailers don’t just take the duty off and sell a product for the retail margin. Just think of them as “slightly cheaper goods”. But do the currency calculations first to see if they really are cheaper. And then compare over the course of a year to see if you save more on your two or three trips to the continent bringing back a couple of litres, compared to ordering a case of wine every week or two direct from the EU producers and having it imported tariff free anyway.

[Old Greg]

Good point, I'll take a look.

More generally, do we KNOW what import duty rates and so on will default to in the event of a hard edit? For that matter, how much duty free booze we can bring in from the Eurozone?!

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None, unless you have hard currency.

[d000hg]

What does their website say, or any other Ts & Cs?

Most international importers have something in the fine print that details what happens if there are changes in landed costs (whether through currency fluctuations, tariff changes, etc)

Good point, I'll take a look.

More generally, do we KNOW what import duty rates and so on will default to in the event of a hard edit? For that matter, how much duty free booze we can bring in from the Eurozone?!

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[meridian]

Is there a contract when you buy something? I think we only have invoices/receipts? Are there implied contracts in such cases... I mean there are UK and EU rules relating to customer standards but the EU rules would no longer apply?!

I suppose by default if we've ordered from a UK company, this is their problem whereas if we'd ordered from the Eurozone company we'd be directly liable... Or is that too simple?



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What does their website say, or any other Ts & Cs?

Most international importers have something in the fine print that details what happens if there are changes in landed costs (whether through currency fluctuations, tariff changes, etc)

[d000hg]

It depends on your contract with the UK distributor whether you'd have to pay any extra duty, which also depends on what you're buying. You should talk to the UK distributor and read your contract.

Is there a contract when you buy something? I think we only have invoices/receipts? Are there implied contracts in such cases... I mean there are UK and EU rules relating to customer standards but the EU rules would no longer apply?!

I suppose by default if we've ordered from a UK company, this is their problem whereas if we'd ordered from the Eurozone company we'd be directly liable... Or is that too simple?



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[Halo Jones]

The road signs over the M25 currently read (along the lines of) Freight rules may change from 01.11.19 - go check.

But I do wonder - so where do they check? any one got a working crystal ball?

[NotAllThere]

We are buying something from a UK distributor of a Dutch company's product. We already placed an order with delivery scheduled in November, with construction happening in the Netherlands before shipping to the UK (by boat we assume).

We were trying to figure out how this might be impacted by a no-deal exit on Oct-31. Of course apart from anything else there might be delays due to traffic jams but aside from that, would there be any legal ramifications? For instance would duty be due that isn't currently?

It depends on your contract with the UK distributor whether you'd have to pay any extra duty, which also depends on what you're buying. You should talk to the UK distributor and read your contract.

[Paddy]

We are buying something from a UK distributor of a Dutch company's product. We already placed an order with delivery scheduled in November, with construction happening in the Netherlands before shipping to the UK (by boat we assume).

We were trying to figure out how this might be impacted by a no-deal exit on Oct-31. Of course apart from anything else there might be delays due to traffic jams but aside from that, would there be any legal ramifications? For instance would duty be due that isn't currently?

While this is a real-life example, I thought it was also interesting to discuss how things generally might work on November 1st in the event of no deal, in terms of facts not tabloid sensationalism. I wondered if orders already placed before the exit date are treated differently from new orders afterwards, etc. Under EU law there are rules on what can/cannot cross a border but with those gone, do we know how that changes? If you were buying something somewhat restricted from within the EU, such as livestock, could you find that what you have paid for is now illegal to import?

No problem; bribe one of the UN aid trucks on the way to the UK.

[Old Greg]

We are buying something from a UK distributor of a Dutch company's product. We already placed an order with delivery scheduled in November, with construction happening in the Netherlands before shipping to the UK (by boat we assume).

We were trying to figure out how this might be impacted by a no-deal exit on Oct-31. Of course apart from anything else there might be delays due to traffic jams but aside from that, would there be any legal ramifications? For instance would duty be due that isn't currently?

While this is a real-life example, I thought it was also interesting to discuss how things generally might work on November 1st in the event of no deal, in terms of facts not tabloid sensationalism. I wondered if orders already placed before the exit date are treated differently from new orders afterwards, etc. Under EU law there are rules on what can/cannot cross a border but with those gone, do we know how that changes? If you were buying something somewhat restricted from within the EU, such as livestock, could you find that what you have paid for is now illegal to import?

It's a bit late to start thinking about this now.

[meridian]

We are buying something from a UK distributor of a Dutch company's product. We already placed an order with delivery scheduled in November, with construction happening in the Netherlands before shipping to the UK (by boat we assume).

We were trying to figure out how this might be impacted by a no-deal exit on Oct-31. Of course apart from anything else there might be delays due to traffic jams but aside from that, would there be any legal ramifications? For instance would duty be due that isn't currently?

While this is a real-life example, I thought it was also interesting to discuss how things generally might work on November 1st in the event of no deal, in terms of facts not tabloid sensationalism. I wondered if orders already placed before the exit date are treated differently from new orders afterwards, etc. Under EU law there are rules on what can/cannot cross a border but with those gone, do we know how that changes? If you were buying something somewhat restricted from within the EU, such as livestock, could you find that what you have paid for is now illegal to import?

Official advice from the Government: leaving with No Deal is a million to one chance.

Also official advice from the Government: we will leave with No Deal if we have to, and we will resist any attempt by Parliament to limit that.

Also advice from the Government: we’re not going to tell you what contingencies need to be made for No Deal in case we spook you.

Also advice from the Government: businesses should prepare for the event of No Deal.

If this doesn’t sound helpful, it’s because it’s not but the Government want you to know that if it all goes wrong for your business it is all your own fault.

You’re not the only one in this situation. Freight is being loaded right now that won’t reach its destination until after 31 October. FTAs might roll over, they might not. Freight might be stuck at the docks waiting for new paperwork and tariff charges to be paid, it might not.

This probably doesn’t help you, but this is why businesses are stockpiling, to avoid any possible disruption. The main concerns tend to be for exporters, not importers, simply because we don’t know how third parties that we don’t have any control over will treat U.K. goods.

For your last question, our laws on what you can and can’t import aren’t going to change overnight. At worst there might be tariffs due, at best the Government might decide to waive inbound paperwork and customs checks for a transition period so you might see little change.

[AtW]

By November you will have starved to death in a no deal scenario, so don't worry about your delivery.

HTH BIDI

That’s the spirit!

It will become known as the Brexit Spirit (BS)

[Mordac]

By November you will have starved to death in a no deal scenario, so don't worry about your delivery.

HTH BIDI

Nobody will starve within one hour, unless they're American...

[DimPrawn]

By November you will have starved to death in a no deal scenario, so don't worry about your delivery.

HTH BIDI