Reply to: No Deal exports grind to a halt

[Old Greg]

So, in your world, the main distribution warehouses in the UK that have been designed around EUR1/2/3/4 pallets will all have to be rebuilt to suit?

I have a funny feeling that you know very little about warehousing, but are just working on "how can we get revenge on the very bad decision I voted for"



That does happen sometimes. What is more likely is they will send stuff over. When the UK sends stuff back, the pallet will be checked to see if it is to the standard required. If it isn't, the goods will be rejected.
The current unrestricted flow of pallets to and fro across Europe (inc UK) means that there is never a backlog in one country while they cross borders. If the goods aren't getting in quick enough, then the outbound goods will not be able to leave the warehouses to go anywhere.

It's basic logistics. It's not politics. It's not the EU's fault. And it appears not to be something you're familiar with,

Of course it's the EU's fault. The UK should be able to have its cake and eat it.

On the other hand, if oPM is afraid of changing pallets, maybe change isn't for him.

[WTFH]

So after we leave we still send our stuff on the EU pallets until they run out.

And what EU companies start sending their stuff on non standard pallets and so we do not get a resupply..

Hmmm I have a funny feeling our guys do not want random tulip pallets either so they may start to reject the EU goods for not being on standard pallets.

So, in your world, the main distribution warehouses in the UK that have been designed around EUR1/2/3/4 pallets will all have to be rebuilt to suit?

I have a funny feeling that you know very little about warehousing, but are just working on "how can we get revenge on the very bad decision I voted for"

Or are you saying they will send stuff over on EU pallets, wait for them to be unloaded and then take the empty pallets back - I think that is not going to happen.

That does happen sometimes. What is more likely is they will send stuff over. When the UK sends stuff back, the pallet will be checked to see if it is to the standard required. If it isn't, the goods will be rejected.
The current unrestricted flow of pallets to and fro across Europe (inc UK) means that there is never a backlog in one country while they cross borders. If the goods aren't getting in quick enough, then the outbound goods will not be able to leave the warehouses to go anywhere.

It's basic logistics. It's not politics. It's not the EU's fault. And it appears not to be something you're familiar with,

[original PM]

It's because you haven't read what has been written.
1. Who owns the pallets?
2. Where do UK companies get their pallets from?

So after we leave we still send our stuff on the EU pallets until they run out.

And what EU companies start sending their stuff on non standard pallets and so we do not get a resupply..

Hmmm I have a funny feeling our guys do not want random tulip pallets either so they may start to reject the EU goods for not being on standard pallets.

Or are you saying they will send stuff over on EU pallets, wait for them to be unloaded and then take the empty pallets back - I think that is not going to happen.

[WTFH]

Right so let me understand this

The pallets must exist in the UK right now - because we trade with the EU with no problems and no one has ever mentioned access to pallets is an issue.

So come the day we leave the EU - but we still continue to trade with them and they continue to trade with us - why are all the fooking pallets suddenly going to go awol?

Are the EU going to send a load of ninja's over to steal 'em?

It's because you haven't read what has been written.
1. Who owns the pallets?
2. Where do UK companies get their pallets from?

[original PM]

We have some, but not enough. Didn’t you read the original link? It’s in there.

They use EU-approved pallets. They have built up their supply chains over years, using approved pallets. We have decided to suddenly cut off our supply chains and start from scratch.

Yes. Pay for the right pallets and get them delivered to the U.K. “Easy” does not also mean quick or cheap.

Right so let me understand this

The pallets must exist in the UK right now - because we trade with the EU with no problems and no one has ever mentioned access to pallets is an issue.

So come the day we leave the EU - but we still continue to trade with them and they continue to trade with us - why are all the fooking pallets suddenly going to go awol?

Are the EU going to send a load of ninja's over to steal 'em?

[WTFH]

Can you provide evidence of which companies - not "EU Nations" as you put it - are using "crappy pallets".

Can you?

I didn't make a ridiculous unsubstantiated claim (fairly typical of Brexiteers). That's why I asked for the evidence.

[meridian]

No Deal exports grind to a halt

Can you?

I assume right now anything we currently export has to the EU must be on these pallets - so we have some in the country now?

So we could just use those

We have some, but not enough. Didn’t you read the original link? It’s in there.

Or maybe we can ask lots of the non EU nations who export to the EU how they manage - maybe speak to some of the warehouse owners see how they deal with the huge amounts of non eu standard pallets they must be getting?

They use EU-approved pallets. They have built up their supply chains over years, using approved pallets. We have decided to suddenly cut off our supply chains and start from scratch.

Surely there is an easy solution for this.

Yes. Pay for the right pallets and get them delivered to the U.K. “Easy” does not also mean quick or cheap.

[original PM]

Can you provide evidence of which companies - not "EU Nations" as you put it - are using "crappy pallets".

Can you?

I assume right now anything we currently export has to the EU must be on these pallets - so we have some in the country now?

So we could just use those

Or maybe we can ask lots of the non EU nations who export to the EU how they manage - maybe speak to some of the warehouse owners see how they deal with the huge amounts of non eu standard pallets they must be getting?

Surely there is an easy solution for this.

[Whorty]

I understand where you’re coming from, but that is simply the way the Single Market works - one rule for everyone inside it, and another rule for everyone outside it. You don’t have to like it or understand why the rules are different, they just are because the members of the Single Market want it that way.

These are called “non-tariff barriers”, and there are a lot of them. Many of them are harmonised with third countries so that some third countries do not have to follow them, these are part of the 750+ agreements and bi-laterals that the EU has agreed with those countries.

You voted for us to be outside the Single Market, and for us to leave those 750+ agreements and start from scratch.

Own it.

And there is the crux. The dimwits claim they knew what they were voting for, yet at every turn they show their ignorance that even 2.5 years later they haven't a clue.

Boo hoo, they cry ... why do we have to be treated differently to the way we were when we were in the EU? Maybe now they're starting to understand what the EU meant by we can't have our cake and eat it

[WTFH]

My point, in case you missed it, was why can EU nations use whatever crappy pallets they like (which we seemingly have been doing) without sanction?

Can you provide evidence of which companies - not "EU Nations" as you put it - are using "crappy pallets".

Most companies who produce product that is shipped internationally do not own the pallets that are used. That's a bit different to domestic deliveries where you get a cheap one that is locally produced, paid for by the company and is disposed of after delivery.
(This piece of education could turn into a Nick Fitz MLFTB)

Before WWII, everybody used their own pallets to ship things around. As the war progressed, a lot of military product was being shipped around the world, from factory to factory, to the battlefields and airfields, etc and it became a big task for the suppliers to get enough pallets, all of which then were destroyed after one journey. There wasn't a standard size for the pallets each business worked to somewhere between 30" and 48". Up steps the Australian government with an idea - they would supply the pallets, but they weren't to be destroyed after one journey, but would be built stronger so they could be re-used. The government would own the pallets, and to make them obvious, they would all be painted blue.
And so the Commonwealth Handling Equipment Pool was formed, aka CHEP.
CHEP today is the largest owner of pallets in the world, all of them rented to companies who reuse them. When you see a blue pallet, it will be stamped "Property of CHEP", and that is who owns them.
There are various other companies like CHEP, although American businesses are more fond of destroying after single use, as re-using and working with others isn't one of their strong points.
One of the other pallet organisations is EPAL- the European Pallet Association. They deal only in EUR Pallets which come in 4 different sizes, the main ones being 80x120cm and 120x100cm. They don't have a distinctive colour, but they will all be stamped with an oval EPAL logo. Like CHEP pallets, these all belong to a pool - the EPP. They are made to standards which means there is no risk of contamination from the wood.

And why does it matter? Well there's a few things -
Firstly big businesses do not want their storage areas to be full of unused, odd-sized pallets that they need to dispose of - a small warehouse receiving 200 pallets a day will quickly run out of space with their empty pallets.
Secondly, when storing the products they want to be able to put them away on their pallet in storage racks. If the pallets are a standard size, this is simple.
Thirdly, businesses who ship goods out on pallets need to know that they are appropriate for the type of product being shipped. If the pallets you receive your stock in on are to a known standard, then you know you can use them for shipping (bar any damage)
Fourthly, companies do not want to spend the money on owning a pallet that will only be used for one delivery, it's cheaper to rent for a few pennies than pay a hundred pounds for one use.

If you've ever been in an FMCG warehouse, or any warehouse with 10,000+ pallet spaces, you'll know the importance of standards for size, weight and strength. If you've only ever seen a single pallet delivered to your house, or a load of them on a bonfire then you probably won't understand the significance of standards for warehousing and transportation on a large scale.

[meridian]

My point, in case you missed it, was why can EU nations use whatever crappy pallets they like (which we seemingly have been doing) without sanction? The minute we're not in the EU, our pallets suddenly become treated like a toxic turd. For obvious environmental reasons that may well be a very good thing, but if you impose a set of rules, it's probably best to impose them across the board. If EU regulations only apply to non-EU member states, what's the fooking point?

I understand where you’re coming from, but that is simply the way the Single Market works - one rule for everyone inside it, and another rule for everyone outside it. You don’t have to like it or understand why the rules are different, they just are because the members of the Single Market want it that way.

These are called “non-tariff barriers”, and there are a lot of them. Many of them are harmonised with third countries so that some third countries do not have to follow them, these are part of the 750+ agreements and bi-laterals that the EU has agreed with those countries.

You voted for us to be outside the Single Market, and for us to leave those 750+ agreements and start from scratch.

Own it.

[darmstadt]

Requirements for wood packaging & dunnage | Food Safety

https://ec.europa.eu/food/sites/food...w_eu_rules.pdf

EUR-pallet - Wikipedia

Chlorinated chicken and hormone modified beef also comes to mind....

[Old Greg]

My point, in case you missed it, was why can EU nations use whatever crappy pallets they like (which we seemingly have been doing) without sanction? The minute we're not in the EU, our pallets suddenly become treated like a toxic turd. For obvious environmental reasons that may well be a very good thing, but if you impose a set of rules, it's probably best to impose them across the board. If EU regulations only apply to non-EU member states, what's the fooking point?

Because EU member states have signed up to a common set of standards, e.g. phytosanitary standards, and a common framework for ensuring adherence. Don't you remember how the UK wanted to be free of the red tape?

[Mordac]

Try reading the response above that explains the point of the regulation.
It’s nothing to do with protecting snowflakes like you, but about making sure that toxins and fungi from untreated foreign wood does not affect the forests of wood in Europe.

My point, in case you missed it, was why can EU nations use whatever crappy pallets they like (which we seemingly have been doing) without sanction? The minute we're not in the EU, our pallets suddenly become treated like a toxic turd. For obvious environmental reasons that may well be a very good thing, but if you impose a set of rules, it's probably best to impose them across the board. If EU regulations only apply to non-EU member states, what's the fooking point?

[Old Greg]

Try reading the response above that explains the point of the regulation.
It’s nothing to do with protecting snowflakes like you, but about making sure that toxins and fungi from untreated foreign wood does not affect the forests of wood in Europe.

But that's not fair!