Reply to: No people like that on this forum

[meridian]

And the definition of "honest" in an EU context would be????

Convention suggests it need simply be doing what happens to suit you best at any given point of time.

Ought to be doable.

It's "honest" in a UK context. Good luck with that, whether it's Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn.....

Realistically though, even if May crossed her fingers and revoked (I don't think she will, but even if), what would the EU do? Their only option would be to go to the ECJ and make a case that they didn't think that the revocation was sincere. Not likely to happen.

But then in six months' time or so, the UK triggers A50 again. Likely? Unlikely? What would the reaction be from

a) the EU, would they have any goodwill left to negotiate or would they just tell the UK to Foxtrot Oscar without any deal?

b) the UK public. Politicians are already despised for not being leaders, all this dithering about doesn't endear them to the public any further

c) potential trade partners. If we're not to be trusted with a simple A50 declaration, who wants to do a trade deal with us?


All in all I don't see us revoking, and if in the slim chance we did, I don't see it being invoked again in a hurry.

[meridian]

And the definition of "honest" in an EU context would be????

Convention suggests it need simply be doing what happens to suit you best at any given point of time.

Ought to be doable.

It's "honest" in a UK context. Good luck with that, whether it's Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn.....

[shaunbhoy]

We cannot rescind and then revoke, at least not easily. According to the judgement we can unilaterally revoke but it must be an honest revocation.

And the definition of "honest" in an EU context would be????

Convention suggests it need simply be doing what happens to suit you best at any given point of time.

Ought to be doable.

[meridian]

not wrong, only partially qualified but you attempt to portray it as doom being a nobrainer.

Not doom. Just wrong.

The EU has publicly offered the chance to delay on this basis so yes we can!

Have they? Show us where "the EU" (i.e. all 27 individual Member States) have offered a delay. Because that is what is required, unanimous agreement in the European Council (EU Member State heads of state and government).

There have been noises made, and lobbying, but it requires unanimous agreement of all 27 heads of state.

Where does it say that in law about article 50? Sounds like wishful thinking, a lie just Nick "I see no Army" Clegg or the "Kangaroo Court" EU Brexit: EU to have power to punish UK at will during transition | Politics | The Guardian.

In the ECJ judgement. Here's a commentary about it:

Article 50 can be revoked: here's what it means for Brexit

it’s important to note that the court added that the decision to revoke Article 50 must be “unequivocal and unconditional”.

Your statement was that "We could also possibly rescind it and invoke it again. Would hack the EU off but give us 2 years to prepare no deal.", implying that we would be able to rescind and then revoke immediately and retrigger the clock for another 2 years. That is factually incorrect.

As I said, there are differing legal opinions on whether we could revoke and then retrigger at a much later stage, but it's generally understood to mean at least a change in government would be required.

Doesn't seem to say that about the GATT here:

Britain’s Brexit Plan B – POLITICO

or here

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...rade-deal-myth

or even here

WTO | Regional Trade Agreements - GATT Article XXIV

It does, actually. Read the second of your links (the Bloomberg one) more carefully. An interim arrangement (a bare-bones FTA) needs to be agreed first.

In a "No Deal" situation, have a guess what the EU will ask for before any interim arrangement is agreed. Top marks if you guess "citizen's rights, a backstop in Ireland, and £39b".

[vetran]

We can live with increased division. It would be a lot better than any form of Brexit in my biased opinion.

FTFY

[Cirrus]

Whatever it takes.

Referendums are the worst way of settling things and would only increase divisions

We can live with increased division. It would be a lot better than any form of Brexit.

[vetran]

Three sentences, all of them wrong.

We cannot (unilaterally) delay for a GE or a referendum. What we can do is ask the EU for an extension and provide our reasons for requesting it, and the 27 Member States can approve or refuse.

We cannot rescind and then revoke, at least not easily. According to the judgement we can unilaterally revoke but it must be an honest revocation. What that means in practice is not determined, but it's generally understood that it would take a change in Government (one government cannot bind the next, etc) before any we could invoke again. And, of course, pissing off our negotiating partner is a great way to start...

Assuming you mean Article XXIV of GATT, this is only possible if there is an agreed FTA in place and we are waiting for implementation. In addition, any other member of the WTO can object.

not wrong, only partially qualified but you attempt to portray it as doom being a nobrainer.

The EU has publicly offered the chance to delay on this basis so yes we can!

Where does it say that in law about article 50? Sounds like wishful thinking, a lie just Nick "I see no Army" Clegg or the "Kangaroo Court" EU Brexit: EU to have power to punish UK at will during transition | Politics | The Guardian.

Doesn't seem to say that about the GATT here:

Britain’s Brexit Plan B – POLITICO

or here

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...rade-deal-myth

or even here

WTO | Regional Trade Agreements - GATT Article XXIV

[GreenMirror]

And, of course, pissing off our negotiating partner is a great way to start...

They are already hacked off. Well they should be. As a Brexiter I am disgusted at the way parliament has treated the EU. I am amazed they don't sling us out.

[meridian]

As I understand it we can delay for a General election or a referendum.

We could also possibly rescind it and invoke it again. Would hack the EU off but give us 2 years to prepare no deal.

Article 24 is also a possibility assuming we can convince the EU.

Three sentences, all of them wrong.

We cannot (unilaterally) delay for a GE or a referendum. What we can do is ask the EU for an extension and provide our reasons for requesting it, and the 27 Member States can approve or refuse.

We cannot rescind and then revoke, at least not easily. According to the judgement we can unilaterally revoke but it must be an honest revocation. What that means in practice is not determined, but it's generally understood that it would take a change in Government (one government cannot bind the next, etc) before any we could invoke again. And, of course, pissing off our negotiating partner is a great way to start...

Assuming you mean Article XXIV of GATT, this is only possible if there is an agreed FTA in place and we are waiting for implementation. In addition, any other member of the WTO can object.

[GreenMirror]

As I understand it we can delay for a General election or a referendum.

We could also possibly rescind it and invoke it again. Would hack the EU off but give us 2 years to prepare no deal.

Article 24 is also a possibility assuming we can convince the EU.

A referendum would allegedly take 2 years anyway. Referendums are the worst way of settling things and would only increase divisions.

A GE would change nothing. MPs believe they are elected to vote for their conscience. Which means for their party.

Maybe we need an American government system?

[vetran]

They will call it a postponement. Or say they cannot leave with a deal.

I am sure the EU will say A50 cannot be postponed.

As I understand it we can delay for a General election or a referendum.

We could also possibly rescind it and invoke it again. Would hack the EU off but give us 2 years to prepare no deal.

Article 24 is also a possibility assuming we can convince the EU.

[GreenMirror]

I'm not sure that is an option, as both Tory and Labour leaderships have committed to leave.

They will call it a postponement. Or say they cannot leave with a deal.

I am sure the EU will say A50 cannot be postponed.

[Platypus]

I'm not sure that is an option, as both Tory and Labour leaderships have committed to leave.

BRINO dear boy, it's just a matter of spin.

[stonehenge]

So the choices are no deal. May deal. Or stay in the EU.

I'm not sure that is an option, as both Tory and Labour leaderships have committed to leave.

[Cirrus]

Heh: The Three Day Week wasn't that Bad

I expect May's WA will eventually squeak through and, to me, that's better than crashing out.

Cashing out indeed.


Ted Heath said the only hope we had was to join the Common Market and now look at us - on a par with France and Italy. It'll be tough from now on but we've had a good innings.