Reply to: Japan's EU deal 'threatens post-Brexit UK industry'

[BlasterBates]

Your terminology is not the issue, it's the idea that these bogeymen can push us, and now apparently the whole of the EU, around.

A trade agreement with Japan is subject to the scrutiny of all the EU governments, all the EU democracies.

Part of that democratic process is representation of the interests of BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Peugeot, Seat, Citroen, Fiat, Renault.

In effect the Japanese can already export into the EU using the UK as a base. It was an easy decision for the rest of the EU. The fact that the Japanese can export directly into the EU affects only the UK. Whether the rest of the EU has to compete against Japanese cars made in Japan or the UK makes no difference.

[meridian]

I apologies for the use of the words EU exec

I meant to say those people at the top of the EU who agree deals with other countries with complete impunity.

Your terminology is not the issue, it's the idea that these bogeymen can push us, and now apparently the whole of the EU, around.

A trade agreement with Japan is subject to the scrutiny of all the EU governments, all the EU democracies.

Part of that democratic process is representation of the interests of BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Peugeot, Seat, Citroen, Fiat, Renault.

Bless, he seems to have forgotten that Wallonia nearly scuppered CETA.

[Cirrus]

I apologies for the use of the words EU exec

I meant to say those people at the top of the EU who agree deals with other countries with complete impunity.

Your terminology is not the issue, it's the idea that these bogeymen can push us, and now apparently the whole of the EU, around.

A trade agreement with Japan is subject to the scrutiny of all the EU governments, all the EU democracies.

Part of that democratic process is representation of the interests of BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Peugeot, Seat, Citroen, Fiat, Renault.

[meridian]

You're getting more and more hilarious every day.

Well it's just that the UK only makes the quashqai in any great quantity.

So I guess they will still source that from the UK.

Yes, if they want it. What are the sales of Qashqai to the EU compared to sales in the UK, of UK-manufactured Qashqais?

So really it is all the other models which will be being imported from Japan - and when they say Japan - do they just mean anywhere else in the world other than the UK?

No, within the context of the Japan-EU FTA it means Japan.

I mean if they make the car in China and it passes through Japan is that classed a Japanese?

It depends on what the Rules of Origin are, as stated in the FTA.

Now interesting question - why will the EU not let Nissans made in the UK in for zero rate?

Because there is a tariff schedule lodged with the WTO that says what the tariffs are. Once the UK negotiates an FTA with the EU then it's likely that Nissans made in the UK will be let in for zero tariff

How would they know if the car was made in the UK or Japan (paperwork can be forged!)

You're being ultra-paranoid now.

There are a lot of car making firms in mainland Europe and to have the EU offer the Japanese a zero tariff deal just fookin stinks.

It's reciprocal. The EU gets zero tariffs on Mercedes, BMWs, etc that are exported to Japan. Reciprocity is usually what deals involve.

Except when it's the UK doing a "deal", when the UK just wants to stamp it's feet and make demands.

[Batcher]

Also wait for it

"Shinichi Iida, Japan’s minister for public diplomacy and media, told The Independent earlier this year that his country’s “first and foremost priority” was rubber-stamping the Brussels deal before work could begin on a free trade agreement with the UK.

But he added that: “Once the Japan-EU economic partnership agreement comes into force, it could provide a very good and sound basis for the future trade between Japan and UK.”

So maybe Japan and the UK can have a similar deal...

then what deal shall we have with the EU????

What deal will be the most mutually beneficially for all members of society? because that must be the one the EU chose surely?

They won't need a similar trade deal because the rUK (i.e. England) won't be manufacturing cars, Japanese or otherwise.

[WTFH]

Also wait for it

"Shinichi Iida, Japan’s minister for public diplomacy and media, told The Independent earlier this year that his country’s “first and foremost priority” was rubber-stamping the Brussels deal before work could begin on a free trade agreement with the UK.

But he added that: “Once the Japan-EU economic partnership agreement comes into force, it could provide a very good and sound basis for the future trade between Japan and UK.”

So maybe Japan and the UK can have a similar deal...

then what deal shall we have with the EU????

What deal will be the most mutually beneficially for all members of society? because that must be the one the EU chose surely?

I think you need a JCB to dig your way out of your paraniod mess.
Why don't you care about British manufacturing?

[original PM]

Also wait for it

"Shinichi Iida, Japan’s minister for public diplomacy and media, told The Independent earlier this year that his country’s “first and foremost priority” was rubber-stamping the Brussels deal before work could begin on a free trade agreement with the UK.

But he added that: “Once the Japan-EU economic partnership agreement comes into force, it could provide a very good and sound basis for the future trade between Japan and UK.”

So maybe Japan and the UK can have a similar deal...

then what deal shall we have with the EU????

What deal will be the most mutually beneficially for all members of society? because that must be the one the EU chose surely?

[original PM]

What you need to think very, very carefully about, tonight - when you're in bed and you've just switched out the light, is how much space there is between the bottom of your divan and the floor. Could something have slithered under there? Could that something lurking underneath be an … EU Exec?!

I apologies for the use of the words EU exec

I meant to say those people at the top of the EU who agree deals with other countries with complete impunity.

Is that acceptable?

[Cirrus]

Hello I'd like to see the Doctor about my Paranoia

Do you think they even got a choice? Do you think that this is not just a childish short term move by the EU exec's to try and prove Brexit is bad by trying to entice Nissan from the Uk purely to support their own goals while at the same time putting pressure on the member states?

What you need to think very, very carefully about, tonight - when you're in bed and you've just switched out the light, is how much space there is between the bottom of your divan and the floor. Could something have slithered under there? Could that something lurking underneath be an … EU Exec?!

[original PM]

Well it's just that the UK only makes the quashqai in any great quantity.

So I guess they will still source that from the UK.

So really it is all the other models which will be being imported from Japan - and when they say Japan - do they just mean anywhere else in the world other than the UK?

I mean if they make the car in China and it passes through Japan is that classed a Japanese?

Now interesting question - why will the EU not let Nissans made in the UK in for zero rate?

How would they know if the car was made in the UK or Japan (paperwork can be forged!)

There are a lot of car making firms in mainland Europe and to have the EU offer the Japanese a zero tariff deal just fookin stinks.

[WTFH]

Wonder what BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Peugeot, Seat, Citroen, Fiat, Renault etc think of the EU's decision to allow Japanese cars to be imported at zero value?

Do you think they even got a choice? Do you think that this is not just a childish short term move by the EU exec's to try and prove Brexit is bad by trying to entice Nissan from the Uk purely to support their own goals while at the same time putting pressure on the member states?

I mean approx 13% of Germany's gap is based on automotive manufacturing.

That's maybe why they got a deal on selling those cars to Japan.

But why do you care about German manufacturing? Surely your top concern should be for British manufacturing.

[BlasterBates]

Wonder what BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Peugeot, Seat, Citroen, Fiat, Renault etc think of the EU's decision to allow Japanese cars to be imported at zero value?

Do you think they even got a choice? Do you think that this is not just a childish short term move by the EU exec's to try and prove Brexit is bad by trying to entice Nissan from the Uk purely to support their own goals while at the same time putting pressure on the member states?

I mean approx 13% of Germany's gap is based on automotive manufacturing.

The Germans are quite happy with the deal, they currently import Japanese cars from the UK, in the future more of these will come from Japan, i.e. it's not the German manufacturers that lose market share it's the Japanese factories in the UK.

The Nissan decision is just the first of many.

[original PM]

There's no doubt that Brexit has more or less fast tracked the Japan-EU trade deal. Japan previously was comfortable using the UK as a bridge head into the EU and was dragging its heals in opening up its markets to the EU. They've now more or less agreed to all the EU's demands and now no longer need the UK. The decision at Nissan to export from Japan would not have been possible without the new EU-Japan trade deal.

Wonder what BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Peugeot, Seat, Citroen, Fiat, Renault etc think of the EU's decision to allow Japanese cars to be imported at zero value?

Do you think they even got a choice? Do you think that this is not just a childish short term move by the EU exec's to try and prove Brexit is bad by trying to entice Nissan from the Uk purely to support their own goals while at the same time putting pressure on the member states?

I mean approx 13% of Germany's gap is based on automotive manufacturing.

[BlasterBates]

There's no doubt that Brexit has more or less fast tracked the Japan-EU trade deal. Japan previously was comfortable using the UK as a bridge head into the EU and was dragging its heals in opening up its markets to the EU. They've now more or less agreed to all the EU's demands and now no longer need the UK. The decision at Nissan to export from Japan would not have been possible without the new EU-Japan trade deal.

[darmstadt]

Which was never going to be made in Sunderland.

Also yes it is the daily mail - but as an article it is very factual in that it tries to avoid putting it's own hyperbole in place of facts..

but won't be perfect I guess.

Who says?

It is contingent too on a positive decision by the Nissan Board to allocateproduction of the Qashqai and X-Trail models to the Sunderland plant.

There was no quantifying what models, just X-Trail. However:

"If Nissan decided to make those cars in petrol it would have to ship engines over from Japan and the cost of doing that work against the decision to build it in the UK."

Japan-EU FTA would absolve at least tariffs on that...along with the petrol X-trail being built in Japan and then imported into the EU..

"There are obviously other factors - car sales are down in the UK, they have fallen across Europe... and there is obviously the overhang of Brexit and the worries of the impact that might have on a plant that exports about 80% of its vehicles."