Reply to: Why are Brexiters such cretins?

[sasguru]

The Trade Facilitation Agreement — Financier Worldwide

I think you will find that we are already a part of this TFA scheme.

That being the case it would mean that the EU would have to show good and justifiable reasons for being obstructive where trading was concerned.
And I doubt that their being "miffed" will be justification enough.

Now if only the likes of TM had researched a little further than the SNP Book of unverifiable excuses, they might have learned something of value.

I rest my case.

[meridian]

Why are Brexiters such cretins?

Except that is patently untrue as the current rules and regulations that we mutually apply would still effectively be in place the day after Brexit, and could be left in place until mutually agreeable alterations could be put in place.

Of course the EU could try and pretend that this would not be the case, but it would just show them to be churlish in the extreme.

Already a very apparent trait many might say, and a major factor in just why we voted to LEAVE.



Don't be so hard on yourself. You are in the right sub-forum for it. Doubtless someone will share a comfort blanket with you before too long.

Not true in the context of a No Deal. Try reading A50, we will no longer be subject to any rules and regulations that we mutually apply and all treaties and agreements will cease to apply to us. Third party, that’s what you voted for. Stop trying to blame the EU for everything just for a moment, and consider standing on your own two feet with whatever consequences come.

May’s Deal is the one on the table that ensures that rules and regulations continue to apply to us, which ensures frictionless trade continues.

Get behind it, instead of bed wetting at the first sign of opportunity.

[shaunbhoy]

WTO | Trade topics - Trade facilitation - Background

FFS Jellyhead, I know that backwater you live in is behind the times, but do try and keep up. 2014??

Ratifications list | TFAF - Trade Facilitation Agreement Facility

[shaunbhoy]

To put it bluntly, if we exit to WTO-only then the EU is obliged to apply the same rules and checks to our goods as they do to goods from Malawi.

Except that is patently untrue as the current rules and regulations that we mutually apply would still effectively be in place the day after Brexit, and could be left in place until mutually agreeable alterations could be put in place.

Of course the EU could try and pretend that this would not be the case, but it would just show them to be churlish in the extreme.

Already a very apparent trait many might say, and a major factor in just why we voted to LEAVE.

Two years on, still a cretin.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are in the right sub-forum for it. Doubtless someone will share a comfort blanket with you before too long.

[meridian]

You seem to be forgetting that the 2 arch proponents of Remain, Messrs Cameron and Osborne, set the Gold Standard for this activity. And without their "Leadership" we would not be in this dilemma to begin with.

They subsequently handed over the reins to yet another Remainer who has succeeded in accomplishing nothing but an "Agreement" that seems to have the single tangible benefit of having united the nation against it as it offers less than what we voted to discard in the first place.

Oh, I agree with your first paragraph. Cameron and Osborne have a lot to answer for.

However, you have a selective memory for the second. Brexiters showed their true spirit and ran away from the top job.

And of course the Agreement offers less than what you voted to discard. We’ve been telling you for years that there is no alternative that is BETTER than what you currently have, but you still want cake and unicorns. This is what you voted for and won, remember?

It sounds like you’re just not believing in the deal enough. Get behind it and Back Britain, stop being a moaning saboteur.

[TestMangler]

The Trade Facilitation Agreement — Financier Worldwide

I think you will find that we are already a part of this TFA scheme.

That being the case it would mean that the EU would have to show good and justifiable reasons for being obstructive where trading was concerned.
And I doubt that their being "miffed" will be justification enough.

Now if only the likes of TM had researched a little further than the SNP Book of unverifiable excuses, they might have learned something of value.

WTO | Trade topics - Trade facilitation - Background

[meridian]

The Trade Facilitation Agreement — Financier Worldwide

I think you will find that we are already a part of this TFA scheme.

That being the case it would mean that the EU would have to show good and justifiable reasons for being obstructive where trading was concerned.
And I doubt that their being "miffed" will be justification enough.

Now if only the likes of TM had researched a little further than the SNP Book of unverifiable excuses, they might have learned something of value.

Hahahahahahahahaha.....

Oh dear, that’s the best laugh I’ll have this morning, I guess. Have you ever thought that if what you are saying is true, then Brexiter trade experts would be shouting it from the rooftops?

The TFA scheme has nothin to do with the EU applying the same rules to the UK that they already apply to other third parties that do not have any trade or trade facilitation agreements (small letters). Agreements such as mutual recognition of qualifications, rules of origin, customs and phytosanitary checks, etc.

To put it bluntly, if we exit to WTO-only then the EU is obliged to apply the same rules and checks to our goods as they do to goods from Malawi. (Actually, more checks than Malawi, because Malawi has agreements with the EU that reduce their checks).

Two years on, still a cretin.

[shaunbhoy]

Perhaps if Brexiter MPs weren’t lying, workshy layabouts that seem to run away at the first sign of having to actually come up with a plan and implement it, then we might have had something more workable.

You seem to be forgetting that the 2 arch proponents of Remain, Messrs Cameron and Osborne, set the Gold Standard for this activity. And without their "Leadership" we would not be in this dilemma to begin with.

They subsequently handed over the reins to yet another Remainer who has succeeded in accomplishing nothing but an "Agreement" that seems to have the single tangible benefit of having united the nation against it as it offers less than what we voted to discard in the first place.

[shaunbhoy]

Well, technically he’s right and we can. We are already members of the WTO in our own right, and although we have unratified schedules this is a minor point that wouldn’t prevent trade.

What he seems to be missing though is the down side of trading ONLY on WTO rules with no supporting trade or trade facilitation agreements. .

Members must also make sure that their formalities are the least restrictive measures among the alternatives which are available to fulfil the relevant policy objectives and are not maintained when they are no longer necessary. Moreover, each member must apply common customs procedures and uniform documentation requirements, while fees and charges must be limited to the cost of services and penalties, commensurate with the degree and severity of the breach.

The Trade Facilitation Agreement — Financier Worldwide

I think you will find that we are already a part of this TFA scheme.

That being the case it would mean that the EU would have to show good and justifiable reasons for being obstructive where trading was concerned.
And I doubt that their being "miffed" will be justification enough.

Now if only the likes of TM had researched a little further than the SNP Book of unverifiable excuses, they might have learned something of value.

[TestMangler]

Well, technically he’s right and we can. We are already members of the WTO in our own right, and although we have unratified schedules this is a minor point that wouldn’t prevent trade.

What he seems to be missing though is the down side of trading ONLY on WTO rules with no supporting trade or trade facilitation agreements. It means that we would be on MFN status, having the largest tariffs applied to all of our exports to every country that we export to. Rules of Origin would mean that we can’t export certain things (cars, etc). Recognition of qualifications would mean that our heavy goods haulers would no longer be able to operate. Regulatory and phytosanitary checks would need to apply to all of our exports.

But sure, we ‘could’ trade now on WTO rules.

Ok, we could 'trade' in the sense that you could open a shop selling things worth £1 for £10 and not having any available for purchase. That kind of 'trade'. That's all OK then.

[meridian]

It's very, very, very well known in Westminster and publicly that the Davies and Raab were not leading the negotiations and had very little say. Olly Robins was, an out of touch, oxford educated public servant who was a europhile since is oxford days:

He studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) at Hertford College, Oxford.[1] He graduated from the University of Oxford with a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree in 1996.[6] At Oxford, Robbins was president of the Oxford Reform Club, a group promoting a federal European Union.[7]

You’re mixing up Accountability and Responsibility.

Davies was Accountable for the Brexit negotiations for 2 years, during which time he turned up for around 4 hours in total. Within that 2 years he never once said that he was not leading the negotiations. On top of that he’s regularly shown himself to be as thick as mince (whatever happened to him going direct to Berlin to negotiate, like he said he would?)

Perhaps if Brexiter MPs weren’t lying, workshy layabouts that seem to run away at the first sign of having to actually come up with a plan and implement it, then we might have had something more workable.

Or perhaps there is no version of Brexit that delivers what you were promised. After two years we’ve only seen hot air and moaning from the Brexiters and no actual detailed alternative plan.

[meridian]

No, we can't, and if you don't know why not, you shouldn't be making these claims.

Well, technically he’s right and we can. We are already members of the WTO in our own right, and although we have unratified schedules this is a minor point that wouldn’t prevent trade.

What he seems to be missing though is the down side of trading ONLY on WTO rules with no supporting trade or trade facilitation agreements. It means that we would be on MFN status, having the largest tariffs applied to all of our exports to every country that we export to. Rules of Origin would mean that we can’t export certain things (cars, etc). Recognition of qualifications would mean that our heavy goods haulers would no longer be able to operate. Regulatory and phytosanitary checks would need to apply to all of our exports.

But sure, we ‘could’ trade now on WTO rules.

[TestMangler]

It really is remarkable the drivel people who claim to be intelligent will believe if it comes from 'experts' or people in high office. Current deal isn't a surrender and won't get through parliament, it removes all the benefits of leaving and keeps all the worst bits of staying. WTO is better than this. By the way, we could trade with the EU tomorrow on WTO terms.

No, we can't, and if you don't know why not, you shouldn't be making these claims.

[LondonManc]

It's very, very, very well known in Westminster and publicly that the Davies and Raab were not leading the negotiations and had very little say. Olly Robins was, an out of touch, oxford educated public servant who was a europhile since is oxford days:

He studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) at Hertford College, Oxford.[1] He graduated from the University of Oxford with a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree in 1996.[6] At Oxford, Robbins was president of the Oxford Reform Club, a group promoting a federal European Union.[7]

Ah, so a May lapdog, intent on delivering an untenable deal which means we'll have to stay because it's got more holes than Fulham's back four?

Certainly explains the current situation. She should be tried for treason.

[NotAllThere]

By the way, we could trade with the EU tomorrow on WTO terms.

Yep, just a click of a button, and all the financial systems set up for dealing with export/import trade will automatically update.