Reply to: Free to make our own trade deals

[Old Greg]

Can we hark back to 2003?

“The truth is this prime minister (Tony Blair) hates the robustly independent Traitors in Ermine, which has proved a more effective check on an over-mighty executive than the Commons ... Now he wants a Lords full of placemen, puppets and toadies.”
Daily Mail editorial, Sept 19th 2003

FTFY

[WTFH]

For the sake of completeness, the Mail also supported Hitler and his purges of Jewish civil servants.

But there is no need to hark back to that, when the Mail uses fascist 'Enemies of the People' and 'Traitors' rhetoric on its front pages. What do you make of that?

Can we hark back to 2003?

“The truth is this prime minister (Tony Blair) hates the robustly independent Lords, which has proved a more effective check on an over-mighty executive than the Commons ... Now he wants a Lords full of placemen, puppets and toadies.”
Daily Mail editorial, Sept 19th 2003

[Old Greg]

Oh oh good one! Sock it to 'em!

Next mention how the Daily Mail supported Mosely 80 years ago therefore all Daily Mail readers today are fascist racists!

For the sake of completeness, the Mail also supported Hitler and his purges of Jewish civil servants.

But there is no need to hark back to that, when the Mail uses fascist 'Enemies of the People' and 'Traitors' rhetoric on its front pages. What do you make of that?

[Platypus]

Great how you put all your faith in this imbecile:

Oh oh good one! Sock it to 'em!

Next mention how the Daily Mail supported Mosely 80 years ago therefore all Daily Mail readers today are fascist racists!

[Eirikur]

Trade deals are not always beneficial, sometimes is best to not have them.

Regardless, it will be the responsibility of the UK to negotiate our trade deals, not the EU, which for many people is the point.

See how brexidiots who were speaking about their own trade deals so much, now suddenly start speaking about no trade deals.
They are starting to see they already have by far the best possible trade deals being inside the EU

Great how you put all your faith in this imbecile:

[Old Greg]

Sorry but the Leave campaign said 350m or were they lying:



Maybe you could ask them to redo the bus and send it out on the road again just to clarify the correct amount, thanks.

And when somebody repeats the figure now, they are lying. And when somebody says that is pedantic, they are also being dishonest.

[darmstadt]

Sorry but the Leave campaign said 350m or were they lying:



Maybe you could ask them to redo the bus and send it out on the road again just to clarify the correct amount, thanks.

[Bean]

We haven't crossed the bridge. The rebate amount is never sent in the first place. The sum of 350 million per week is a straight falsehood. That isn't being pedantic. That is the truth.

and the corrections are never actually sent to us either - it's an accounting method. So in a similar way - "without taking the rebate into account, the UK is calculated to owe the EU roughly ~£350M/week" would be fine as a sentence.

So if everyone stops using the word 'send' and instead uses the words 'calculated to owe the EU' (including the rebate qualifier) - they would be true and correct too.

Now, we've crossed that bridge. (We don't send £350/week), but equally pedantic on language then - we don't receive a rebate, they adjust our future payments instead.

[meridian]

Have we done this one yet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8363146.html

I have good friends in both countries.

Apart from the obvious difference in market size between the EU and U.K., the perception there is that the U.K. government cannot be trusted. Who would want to start trade negotiations with a government that firstly doesn’t know what it wants, and secondly could renege on it before it gets to paper?

[Old Greg]

Have we done this one yet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8363146.html

But think about the blue passports.

[darmstadt]

Have we done this one yet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8363146.html

[Old Greg]

Ok, if we're going to be pedantic.

The article is clear that the UK doesn't send the EU any money every day, or every week - thus making any remoaner figure also a falsehood - happy now?

350 is a figure, to be used with a qualifier of 'without including the rebate' - making it real
230 is a figure, to be used without a qualifier - making it also real


Now, what was your answer to OpMs questions, now that we've crossed this particular bridge?

We haven't crossed the bridge. The rebate amount is never sent in the first place. The sum of 350 million per week is a straight falsehood. That isn't being pedantic. That is the truth.

[Bean]

The article is clear that the UK doesn't send 350 million per week. So it is a falsehood.

Ok, if we're going to be pedantic.

The article is clear that the UK doesn't send the EU any money every day, or every week - thus making any remoaner figure also a falsehood - happy now?

350 is a figure, to be used with a qualifier of 'without including the rebate' - making it real
230 is a figure, to be used without a qualifier - making it also real


Now, what was your answer to OpMs questions, now that we've crossed this particular bridge?

[darmstadt]

Trade deals are not always beneficial, sometimes is best to not have them.

Regardless, it will be the responsibility of the UK to negotiate our trade deals, not the EU, which for many people is the point.

Precisely.

For posterity:

In which case why is Germany China’s largest trading partner? EU rules don’t prevent any member state from trading outside the EU. That’s how France can do more trade with the US than the UK does. What holds Britain back are domestic issues like our low productivity, our lack of investment in skills and the fact that we don’t make enough of what the world wants to buy. “Global Britain” is a slogan, not a policy.

In 2016, around 54% of the UK’s exports were to countries which had trade deals in place or provisionally in place with the EU (including EU member states). 60% is a little high, according to our calculations.

These deals are designed to make trade easier, with fewer tariffs in place. As the UK is currently part of the EU, it traded with those countries through the EU agreements in 2016.
...
As an EU member, the UK can trade tariff-free with all 27 other EU member states through the single market.

On top of this, the EU lists 31 states or territories with which it has some kind of trade agreement fully in place (in a few cases this gives them access to the single market).
...

The UK has a strong network of trade relations with non-EU countries with an interest in open markets which are in compliance with World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules. Where barriers prevent access to overseas markets, the UK government seeks to address these, both through its own efforts and through the EU. Where markets are open, it seeks to support the EU in negotiating legally binding commitments through the WTO or by means of bilateral trade agreements.
...
The UK government has bilateral trade relations with individual Asian and Pacific countries, and this relationship offers UK businesses a huge range of opportunities in this region - from basic to high-tech industry and services. Some trade is also aid-funded.

These countries range from small Pacific islands and least developed countries, such as Bangladesh, to major economies, such as China, India and Japan. The region also includes smaller but sophisticated economies, such as Australia, South Korea, Malaysia and Taiwan.

[Old Greg]

Read the article that was linked and it will be explained to you, I believe you'll be able to understand it.

The article is clear that the UK doesn't send 350 million per week. So it is a falsehood.