Reply to: Guy Verhofstadt

[Bean]

You quoted it yourself - 80% of cross border trade for smaller businesses would not be affect.
The other 20%?
What about the other 20%?

...oh yeah, they'd suffer border checks. They would have a hard border.

This has been explained many times, but still you refuse to read.

Now, where's your links to the proposals you asserted yesterday?
Nope?
Still none.
Still trying to deflect.

You are mixing up threads. This thread is more about Democratic accountability and GV's comments about the Spitzenkandidat

Take a breath, count to 10 and then head over to the TM Speech today thread for the links.

HTH BIDI

[WTFH]

Mr Lidington backed Mrs May's plan to avoid a hard border through technological solutions and placing no new restrictions on the 80 per cent of cross-frontier trade carried out by smaller businesses, while suggesting it could be tweaked."

You quoted it yourself - 80% of cross border trade for smaller businesses would not be affect.
The other 20%?
What about the other 20%?

...oh yeah, they'd suffer border checks. They would have a hard border.

This has been explained many times, but still you refuse to read.

Now, where's your links to the proposals you asserted yesterday?
Nope?
Still none.
Still trying to deflect.

[Bean]

You'll still not provide a link as I requested ages ago, and you'll reject this one, but never mind...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/572123...to-her-deputy/

Yes, your link shall be validly rejected as not what was asked for and not fit for purpose.

Here's a snippet or two from it;
"But he rejected suggestions the UK would have to accept the fallback option of keeping Northern Ireland in an effective customs union with the EU.

The thorny issue is holding up any potential agreement on Britain's exit terms from the EU, and agreeing a transition deal for the period immediately after we leave the bloc next year.

Mr Lidington backed Mrs May's plan to avoid a hard border through technological solutions and placing no new restrictions on the 80 per cent of cross-frontier trade carried out by smaller businesses, while suggesting it could be tweaked."


So yes, I am still waiting for you to provide evidence (a direct quote from TM, not her deputy, not boris, not amber rudd, etc.) for your assertion that

"TM has said she won't rule it out."

[BlasterBates]

As usual a great headline from the Daily Express:

EU threatens to cripple UK exports and force UK consumers to buy European goods

[WTFH]

You'll still not provide a link as I requested ages ago, and you'll reject this one, but never mind...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/572123...to-her-deputy/

[Bean]

...and then you go back to your usual name calling, the fail-safe position of a Brexiteer when challenged on their comments, or asked to find evidence to back up their claims.

While you're on google, try finding your assertion, but directly quoted from TM;
"TM has said she won't rule it out."

^^^ Any luck with this yet ^^^ ??

And this is why it's impossible to have a debate or discussion with Brexit supporters. Eventually their argument is smilie faces and change the subject.

When did you become a brexit supporter then (without the smilies obviously)?

I love your hypocrisy btw, keep it up

[WTFH]

...or asked to find evidence to back up their claims.

I'll just quote yourself, since maybe you'll understand it.

According to NorthernladUK, a search facility is very useful - perhaps you can attempt to use it?

Maybe google? Heard of it?

[Bean]

I've only got a maximum of 40 years left in my life, I'll end up spending 30+ of them trying to explain UK democracy to you, you'll reply with smilies, or by changing words here and there, but still not get it.

It's futile me trying to debate or discuss with someone whose cognitive functions and ability to reason are based around "lol" "rollin" etc.

...and then you go back to your usual name calling, the fail-safe position of a Bremoaner when challenged on their comments, or asked to find evidence to back up their claims.

[WTFH]

Now tell me the EU equivalent

I've only got a maximum of 40 years left in my life, I'll end up spending 30+ of them trying to explain UK democracy to you, you'll reply with smilies, or by changing words here and there, but still not get it.

It's futile me trying to debate or discuss with someone whose cognitive functions and ability to reason are based around "lol" "rollin" etc.

[darmstadt]

Labour voters can join the Labour party
Conservative voters, conservative party
Lib Dems voters, Lib Dems party
& so on

Thus, the entire public can join A party.

Then, those registered to vote in elections can vote for a candidate of said party, whose members will in turn vote for their leader.

If those election voters manage to get their party to win, they will have also voted for the PM.
(Thus the entire UK public, can (if it so chooses to) be part of the process to elect their PM)

Not sure which rocker you are currently off though

Not too sure that applies to Tories:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...yn-three-times

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...my-Corbyn.html

[Bean]

With the aid of a few brackets and a bit of re-wording, you've changed your story, shock horror, while still unable to find a simple link.

Can join THE party - changed to - can join A party
Vote on a leader and therefore the PM - changed to - if it so chooses to be part of the process to elect their PM

...and then you go back to your usual name calling, the fail-safe position of a Brexiter when challenged on their comments, or asked to find evidence to back up their claims.

Now tell me the EU equivalent

[WTFH]

The entire UK public, can join the party, vote on a leader and therefore the PM

Labour voters can join the Labour party
Conservative voters, conservative party
Lib Dems voters, Lib Dems party
& so on

Thus, the entire public can join A party.

Then, those registered to vote in elections can vote for a candidate of said party, whose members will in turn vote for their leader.

If those election voters manage to get their party to win, they will have also voted for the PM.
(Thus the entire UK public, can (if it so chooses to) be part of the process to elect their PM)

Not sure which rocker you are currently off though

With the aid of a few brackets and a bit of re-wording, you've changed your story, shock horror, while still unable to find a simple link.

Can join THE party - changed to - can join A party
Vote on a leader and therefore the PM - changed to - if it so chooses to be part of the process to elect their PM

...and then you go back to your usual name calling, the fail-safe position of a Brexiter when challenged on their comments, or asked to find evidence to back up their claims.

[Bean]

Nope.

The entire UK public (there you go again treating every citizen of the UK as a big amorphous blob), could join a party as long as they are not currently members of another party.
The entire UK public could all vote for the same leader of that party and then
The entire UK public could all vote for that one party.

At which point it would not be a democracy, as the idea of forcing everyone to join a party and forcing everyone to vote for the one leader and then forcing everyone to vote for that party in an election would not be very democratic, would it?

The entire UK public are not a big amorphous blob, quite a few of us exhibit the ability to think for ourselves, and some are already members of political parties, so you'll have to wait until they are all banned from voting because they don't agree with you. Under current party rules you are not allowed to be a member of more than one party.

Great idea, if you live in North Korea or China.

Try again.

Labour voters can join the Labour party
Conservative voters, conservative party
Lib Dems voters, Lib Dems party
& so on

Thus, the entire public can join A party.

Then, those registered to vote in elections can vote for a candidate of said party, whose members will in turn vote for their leader.

If those election voters manage to get their party to win, they will have also voted for the PM.
(Thus the entire UK public, can (if it so chooses to) be part of the process to elect their PM)

Not sure which rocker you are currently off though

[WTFH]

LOL - can you square your own circle I wonder?

Anyone can become a member of the Conservatives (your assertion)
"we the UK public" are not a campaign group, nor a block vote. (your assertion)

Forgive me, but the first assertion contradicts the second.
The entire UK public, can join the party, vote on a leader and therefore the PM - thanks WTFH, much easier to see the democratic deficit inherent in the EU now.....

Nope.

The entire UK public (there you go again treating every citizen of the UK as a big amorphous blob), could join a party as long as they are not currently members of another party.
The entire UK public could all vote for the same leader of that party and then
The entire UK public could all vote for that one party.

At which point it would not be a democracy, as the idea of forcing everyone to join a party and forcing everyone to vote for the one leader and then forcing everyone to vote for that party in an election would not be very democratic, would it?

The entire UK public are not a big amorphous blob, quite a few of us exhibit the ability to think for ourselves, and some are already members of political parties, so you'll have to wait until they are all banned from voting because they don't agree with you. Under current party rules you are not allowed to be a member of more than one party.

Great idea, if you live in North Korea or China.

Try again.

[Bean]

"we the UK public" are not a campaign group, nor a block vote. The UK public voters are individual people, each of whom is allowed to place one vote for an individual MP. None of the UK public vote for a party, but an individual (who may be a member of a party).
It is possible to be a member of a party without being a member of parliament. An individual UK voter (not "we the UK public") cannot change the entire make-up of two parties, instead based on the majority of votes in a constituency, a candidate will be nominated as the elected member of parliament for that constituency.

So, separate from the members of parliament are the members of the party.
Members of the party are not elected by the public in an open vote. You sign up, you pay your dues, you become a member of the party. As a party member you get to vote for your party leader. If your party has an overall majority of members of parliament, then your party leader can become the prime minister.

LOL - can you square your own circle I wonder?

Anyone can become a member of the Conservatives (your assertion)
"we the UK public" are not a campaign group, nor a block vote. (your assertion)

Forgive me, but the first assertion contradicts the second.
The entire UK public, can join the party, vote on a leader and therefore the PM - thanks WTFH, much easier to see the democratic deficit inherent in the EU now.....