Reply to: Smart Borders 2.0 Northern Ireland.

[northernladyuk]

This is all fine and dandy for people that are willing to obey the rules. But will leave a gaping hole for smuggling cheap imports from the UK flooding the market in RoI(after all we were promised FTAs with the rest of the world that will result in cheaper products, as importers will not have to pay the EU duties).

Not to mention the eventual standards divergence in the future even if the UK decides to copy/paste the current EU standards "as is".

Whoever thinks that the EU will agree to such a backdoor is delusional.

Nordic and US-Canada crossings/borders doesn't pass through the middle of towns and villages like in Ireland.

Not to mention farm gates.

[sal]

All will be open.

Only non pre approved goods transport would need to go though main arterial border check roads - people, regular goods, pre approved goes straight through.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...them-1.2683072

This is all fine and dandy for people that are willing to obey the rules. But will leave a gaping hole for smuggling cheap imports from the UK flooding the market in RoI(after all we were promised FTAs with the rest of the world that will result in cheaper products, as importers will not have to pay the EU duties).

Not to mention the eventual standards divergence in the future even if the UK decides to copy/paste the current EU standards "as is".

Whoever thinks that the EU will agree to such a backdoor is delusional.

Nordic and US-Canada crossings/borders doesn't pass through the middle of towns and villages like in Ireland.

[northernladyuk]

Don't worry, it's all under control - Boris is on the case. The Irish border is basically the same as the border between Islington and Camden,

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2018/02/27...ponses-online/

The cretins have achieved their cretinocracy. It is the will of the people.

[WTFH]

Don't worry, it's all under control - Boris is on the case. The Irish border is basically the same as the border between Islington and Camden,

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2018/02/27...ponses-online/

[meridian]

No, I don’t see a problem or cause for any concern there.

A) we would need a trade deal that enables inferior meat imports.
B) it would need to be cost effective to ship the carcasses half way round the world.

Don’t assume A and I find B unlikely.

As for eating a filthy Mc Chlorinated chicken sandwich in Dublin...

I think the odds are 1000 times more likely that you will eat a Quarter Pounder with horse burger;

and a 100,000 times more likely that the meat you eat will be kosher/halal. Which nobody seems to give a fig about.

We already have trade deals that import superior meat imports from halfway around the world, it’s called NZ lamb. I don’t believe that the U.K. government want divergence from EU standards because they want to increase the level of regulation, so the implication is that divergent standards will be lower.

It’s not just about the chicken. “Pink diesel”, for example, has been rife for decades. Chinese steel, which the U.K. wanted to import even though the EU wanted to block. Cladding on the exterior of buildings. Etc.

[PurpleGorilla]

Smart Borders 2.0 Northern Ireland.

So, open borders then.

You don’t see a problem from the Ireland perspective of (potentially) food and other goods that don’t meet EU standards being imported into NI and then smuggled over the border for consumption in Ireland?

No, I don’t see a problem or cause for any concern there.

A) we would need a trade deal that enables inferior meat imports.
B) it would need to be cost effective to ship the carcasses half way round the world.

Don’t assume A and I find B unlikely.

As for eating a filthy Mc Chlorinated chicken sandwich in Dublin...

I think the odds are 1000 times more likely that you will eat a Quarter Pounder with horse burger;

and a 100,000 times more likely that the meat you eat will be kosher/halal. Which nobody seems to give a fig about.

[meridian]

All will be open.

Only non pre approved goods transport would need to go though main arterial border check roads - people, regular goods, pre approved goes straight through.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...them-1.2683072

So, open borders then.

You don’t see a problem from the Ireland perspective of (potentially) food and other goods that don’t meet EU standards being imported into NI and then smuggled over the border for consumption in Ireland?

[PurpleGorilla]

Smart Borders 2.0 Northern Ireland.

There are more border crossings in Ireland than the combined total of crossings between USA and Canada and crossings on the entire eastern EU border. Will these all be managed and left open or will a significant number be closed?

All will be open.

Only non pre approved goods transport would need to go though main arterial border check roads - people, regular goods, pre approved goes straight through.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...them-1.2683072

[northernladyuk]

Norway has a soft border. Something like 30 roads some of which have no customs. People are free to cross anywhere. No declared and random sample goods stop at a service /customs stop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway...3Sweden_border

There are more border crossings in Ireland than the combined total of crossings between USA and Canada and crossings on the entire eastern EU border. Will these all be managed and left open or will a significant number be closed?

[PurpleGorilla]

Smart Borders 2.0 Northern Ireland.

And that's about as far as it will get

Depends if they bring out the road warrior...

[darmstadt]

But then the can is getting kicked down the road isn’t it?

And that's about as far as it will get

[PurpleGorilla]

https://news.sky.com/story/sweden-wa...rexit-11140707

Frictionless borders: learning from Norway - BBC News

https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...norway-sweden/

Time, time, time is of the essence and this government don't seem to realise that...

Norway-Sweden is not as advanced as Smart Borders 2.0.

You’re right though, would take a while to get in place.

But then the can is getting kicked down the road isn’t it?

[darmstadt]

Norway has a soft border. Something like 30 roads some of which have no customs. People are free to cross anywhere. No declared and random sample goods stop at a service /customs stop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway...3Sweden_border

https://news.sky.com/story/sweden-wa...rexit-11140707

Frictionless borders: learning from Norway - BBC News

https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...norway-sweden/

Time, time, time is of the essence and this government don't seem to realise that...

[PurpleGorilla]

Is the Norway border (even with smart tech) defined as a hard border?

Where abouts on the border in Ireland are you going to be building customs control posts, holding depots, etc?

How long will it take to implement the smart tech, and when will the work be starting? What are you going to do in the meantime if the work is not finished before the U.K. leaves?

Not quite so simples.

Norway has a soft border. Something like 30 roads some of which have no customs. People are free to cross anywhere. No declared and random sample goods stop at a service /customs stop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway...3Sweden_border

[meridian]

Compromise in terms of a bespoke deal rather than an off the peg.

Many existing opt outs and compromises.

San Marino has a partial customs union with the EU with opt outs on certain goods.

Lichtenstein has FOM opt outs.

It’s pretty clear what the UK position is.

The EU are under no obligation to offer anything just to make the UK’s exit easier. It was the UK’s decision to leave, the solution should have been thought about and discussed pre-referendum, or at the very least pre-Article 50 notification.

“Solution” being something realistic and on the table, not cake and unicorns.