Reply to: EU to strangle Britain in interminable transition

[shaunbhoy]

No, the ones that consider themselves to be victimised are the boomers. You know, the ones that weren’t actually in the war but talk about it all the time. The ones that got fat off the sacrifices of their parents, and are now pulling the ladder up from their kids. The ones that watched Alf Garnett and called other kids Pakis but are now raging that they’ve been told that that’s not acceptable.

You know the ones.

Thank God they only exist in the warped fantasy minds of dimwits such as you.

You might need your Meds hiked up a bit.

HTH

[meridian]

Sorry but that is just bollox.

If it was the 'old people' who voted for brexit then you know they are not the victims, the self pitying hand wringing socialist, the social justice warriors.

These are the people that rebuilt the country after the war, that made the UK the country will live in today.

Hark at that nostalgia! Didn’t take long to mention the war....

The ones that built the country after the war would have been, say, 15 - 20 years old in 1945. That would make them 86+ at the referendum. They might piss their pants when they hear someone “talk a bit funny” or see half a dozen snowflakes gathered in the street, but they won’t be victimised.

No, the ones that consider themselves to be victimised are the boomers. You know, the ones that weren’t actually in the war but talk about it all the time. The ones that got fat off the sacrifices of their parents, and are now pulling the ladder up from their kids. The ones that watched Alf Garnett and called other kids Pakis but are now raging that they’ve been told that that’s not acceptable.

You know the ones.

[original PM]

Lol

The Brexit Blog: The week that Brexit plumbed new depths of absurdity

Sorry but that is just bollox.

If it was the 'old people' who voted for brexit then you know they are not the victims, the self pitying hand wringing socialist, the social justice warriors.

These are the people that rebuilt the country after the war, that made the UK the country will live in today.

[BlasterBates]

You've missed the point.

To have another referendum takes time to organise (ratification through parliament etc), at the very least it will be after we have left the EU.

At that point, we will be voting to join the EU, that entails a different situation to that now, as a starting point:

• No rebate
• No veto
• Accepting the Euro as the country's currency

How do you think that will turn out?

The UK holds all the cards so the EU will cave to their will.

[meridian]

You've missed the point.

To have another referendum takes time to organise (ratification through parliament etc), at the very least it will be after we have left the EU.

At that point, we will be voting to join the EU, that entails a different situation to that now, as a starting point:

• No rebate
• No veto
• Accepting the Euro as the country's currency

How do you think that will turn out?

Sort of correct - another referendum certainly will take time to organise and it is looking less likely that it will be before March 2019. Given this government’s ability to kick the can down the road it is almost a given that any referendum would be after that.

However, there is still an option to extend the A50 period rather than enter a transitional phase. If this happens then any referendum would be while we are still in the EU, not after.

The calls for a second referendum on the result are mainly from Farage. Most other commentators are calling for a referendum on the deal, with one of the options being to reject the deal and maintain the status quo - it’s semantics, but it’s deal-based rather than a simple in/out (the simple in/out being what got us into this position in the first place...)

If we have already left the EU by this stage (ie no extension or revocation of A50) then the question is moot, we won’t be rejoining in a hurry.

By the way, whether we rejoin or stay we’ll probably lose the rebate anyway, this was a one-time concession won in the last round of EU financing on the back of an overall EU funding reduction and a restructuring of CAP.

[Antman]

You've missed the point.

To have another referendum takes time to organise (ratification through parliament etc), at the very least it will be after we have left the EU.

At that point, we will be voting to join the EU, that entails a different situation to that now, as a starting point:

• No rebate
• No veto
• Accepting the Euro as the country's currency

How do you think that will turn out?

[meridian]

Yeah, right. Brexit is based on blaming everyone else (immigrants, the EU, etc) that’s why you get comments in here about the EU being bullies by not giving the U.K. whatever it wants, when the reality is that the U.K. has had sovereignty, control, and the best possible trade deal by being part of the SM all this time.

Blaming someone else is not going to stop just because we’ve left, it’s a handy way for the elite and the mass media to keep everyone agitated against everyone but the true source of the problems.

Lol

http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot....w-depths.html?

But I think there is something deeper here than Farage’s ego. There is a significant strand of Brexiter thinking, exemplified by Farage, which is besotted with a self-pitying sense of victimhood. For these people, winning the Referendum was actually a catastrophe, taking away their victim status and requiring them to do something quite hateful to them: to take responsibility for delivering what they said they wanted and which they claimed would be easy. It is that which accounts for the way that since the Referendum they have continually acted as if they were still fighting it. And, more profoundly, it directly feeds into talking about Brexit as if Britain were being forced out of the EU on ‘punitive’ terms, thus perpetuating a sense of victimhood. In this way, there is a seamless weave between Farage’s desire to re-live his moment in the sun, Davis’s attempt to blame the EU for the consequences of Brexit, and Hammond’s talk of post-Brexit trade on anything other than near identical terms to EU membership being punitive.

Until the Referendum – or at least until the Article 50 letter – Britain could keep going round these endless loops of brassy, breezy optimism (‘they need us more than we need them’ and variants thereof) and sullen, lachrymose victimhood (‘ordinary folk done down by the EUSSR and the establishment’). That won’t do now that Brexit is happening, and happening very soon. Brexiters love to say that the refusal of ‘remoaners’ to accept Brexit is undermining the country in the EU negotiations but the reality is that what makes Britain ridiculous – and incomprehensible – to the EU is, precisely, the deep-rooted inability of Brexiters to accept Brexit.

For Brexiters are no longer – if they ever were – the insurgents. Now, they drive government policy and are in the key positions of authority to deliver Brexit. And that has exposed both their completely inadequate grasp of the practicalities of what Brexit means and their psychological aversion to taking responsibility for it. Farage apparently believes that a second referendum would deliver an overwhelming mandate for Brexit but I suspect that in his heart of hearts he – and many other Brexiters – would prefer to lose such a Referendum. Then, not only would all the boring practicalities of responsibility to deliver an impossible policy be avoided but also Brexiters could return to their comfort zone of victimhood.

And if that analysis is right, then the absurdity of Britain leaving the EU becomes truly enormous: for it means that we are doing so against the wishes not just of remainers but of leavers too.

[petergriffin]

That was always the problem in Britain that no-one wants a central register, that means it is a paradise for illegal immigrants. It's the only country I know that tackles illegal immigration by sending a bus around with a big sign on telling illegal immigrants to go home. In virtually every other country it is impossible for anyone to live in a rented flat or get a job without registering.

Guess who was it who scrapped the ID card scheme in 2010:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...pping-id-cards

[meridian]

EU to strangle Britain in interminable transition

But I think that's essentially why Britain should leave the EU so they can inwardly reflect on themselves and figure what they're doing wrong without blaming everyone else.

Yeah, right. Brexit is based on blaming everyone else (immigrants, the EU, etc) that’s why you get comments in here about the EU being bullies by not giving the U.K. whatever it wants, when the reality is that the U.K. has had sovereignty, control, and the best possible trade deal by being part of the SM all this time.

Blaming someone else is not going to stop just because we’ve left, it’s a handy way for the elite and the mass media to keep everyone agitated against everyone but the true source of the problems.

[BlasterBates]

There is a difference between freedom of movement and the ability to apply for and work in another country.

As I have always maintained brexit is not about stopping every 'foreigner' coming into our country, a part of it was about not letting anybody come into the country and remain indefinitely because they arrived in about in Greece and are now an 'EU citizen'

Yes I know we could have done that to an extent in the past but uk government didn't.

So yes happy for a freedom of movement of vetted workers who have a clear means to support themselves and are not expecting any freebies.

If you read the EU rules that's what they are. You don't simply have the right to go and live in another country you have to register. All European countries except Britain register any EU migrants, and throw the ones out who can't support themselves.

That was always the problem in Britain that no-one wants a central register, that means it is a paradise for illegal immigrants. It's the only country I know that tackles illegal immigration by sending a bus around with a big sign on telling illegal immigrants to go home. In virtually every other country it is impossible for anyone to live in a rented flat or get a job without registering.

But I think that's essentially why Britain should leave the EU so they can inwardly reflect on themselves and figure what they're doing wrong without blaming everyone else.

[original PM]

There is a difference between freedom of movement and the ability to apply for and work in another country.

As I have always maintained brexit is not about stopping every 'foreigner' coming into our country, a part of it was about not letting anybody come into the country and remain indefinitely because they arrived in about in Greece and are now an 'EU citizen'

Yes I know we could have done that to an extent in the past but uk government didn't.

So yes happy for a freedom of movement of vetted workers who have a clear means to support themselves and are not expecting any freebies.

[BlasterBates]

I think that's just bollox mate.

That's why Brexit will be a failure, as Brexiteers are unable to understand the basic principles behind trade agreements.

[tazdevil]

EU leaders plan to slowly strangle Britain in an interminable transition, whilst negotiations proceed at snails pace

It's alright Trump will ride to the rescue.

Those nice Europeans, all demand and no give. All they ever wanted to do is subsume Britain into their burgeoning empire, kill national identity and replace it with the greater European Feck em I say The only trouble is those nice softies we're breeding who dislike anyone that can be pilloried on social media. So instead of leveraging Trump and others for our benefit we're intent on fouling the relationship with petty considerations. Where's the backbone we used to have

[original PM]

A market includes capital, goods, services and people.

If a country like Britain can dominate a market and push, for example, Poles out of business because they have access to their market, then Poles won't be happy that having had their companies driven out of business they can't go and work in Britain and instead watch as Britain imports a lot non-European "cheap" immigrants to undercut them.

That's why after Britain leaves the EU they will erect barriers to protect their own industries.

I think that's just bollox mate.

[BlasterBates]

Interesting so we want a trade deal but not freedom of movement.

Why?

Surely they are two separate things - one is a trade deal the other is freedom of movement.

It's almost like the EU do not want freedom of movement and so see it as a 'bad' thing where as they see trade deals as a 'good' thing.

If they were both good things then they would be negotiated separately but because they lump one in with the other you can clearly see what their true thoughts are .

But then I guess you have never thought about it like that have you?

A market includes capital, goods, services and people.

If a country like Britain can dominate a market and push, for example, Poles out of business because they have access to their market, then Poles won't be happy that having had their companies driven out of business they can't go and work in Britain and instead watch as Britain imports a lot non-European "cheap" immigrants to undercut them.

That's why after Britain leaves the EU they will erect barriers to protect their own industries.