Reply to: Brexit Betrayal

[original PM]

From that post I’m honestly not sure if you’re a socialist or a capitalist.

Neither try a co-operative and that would be nearer the mark.

But the issue of the welsh valleys and the loss of the mines is not that different from any area which relied on large amounts of low skilled manual labour - Liverpool and the loss of the majority of the dockwork for 1 example.

The problem is that those areas put little value in literacy or education - and even now 1 and a half generations on you are only starting to see that change.

But digging rocks out of the ground with your hands is simply not something we should see people doing in 21st century UK - closing the mines was bad but it has probably saved thousands of lives from that fate.

No easy answers but they are out there - it relies on both government investment and the population rising to the challenge of change.

[meridian]

Ok well one of the reason I voted to leave was so the Uk government could concentrate on supporting these people all over the country.

And not to leave it to the EU.

Thing to remember is just giving these people free money will not help their situation - it is just temporary.

we need to look at where they live and the viability of what infrastructure can be built to allow them to support themselves longer term.

From that post I’m honestly not sure if you’re a socialist or a capitalist.

[original PM]

Overall point remains the same. The EU needs to do something because our own government won’t.

Ok well one of the reason I voted to leave was so the Uk government could concentrate on supporting these people all over the country.

And not to leave it to the EU.

Thing to remember is just giving these people free money will not help their situation - it is just temporary.

we need to look at where they live and the viability of what infrastructure can be built to allow them to support themselves longer term.

[meridian]

You mean the ones labour closed?

Pit closures were a Labour policy; Wilson shut twice as many as Thatcher – The People's Charter Foundation

Overall point remains the same. The EU needs to do something because our own government won’t.

[original PM]

Perhaps this thread from a Welshman will explain why they need to accept subsidies from the EU.

Tl;dr: the Tories closed down the mines, provided no replacement opportunities, are never going to get elected there so have no need to provide their own subsidies or assistance. The EU is helping because our own government won’t.

https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/942686004787458048

You mean the ones labour closed?

Pit closures were a Labour policy; Wilson shut twice as many as Thatcher – The People's Charter Foundation

[meridian]

Brexit Betrayal

Interestingly speaking to a welsh friend who is most upset about Brexit.

Because a lot of Wales is apparently propped up by EU subsidies.

I questioned whether he thought it was acceptable for a once great country like Wales to be reduced to scavenging for scraps from kitchen bins of the EU or should the Welsh get their act together.

Perhaps this thread from a Welshman will explain why they need to accept subsidies from the EU.

Tl;dr: the Tories closed down the mines, provided no replacement opportunities, are never going to get elected there so have no need to provide their own subsidies or assistance. The EU is helping because our own government won’t.

https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/942686004787458048

[original PM]

As a Londoner, I reckon the further you go from the Capital the less they get given back relative to the taxes they pay.

In North Wales its even worse as the Welsh Assembly only cares about South Wales.

https://nation.cymru/2017/the-week-j...e-waste-money/

Welsh is not a waste of money. However it needs prioritising correctly. Behind hospitals, dentists and teaching. The Welsh are great people(apart from PC) - they deserve better.

I completely agree the Welsh people deserve more.

And you can see by the decline of the north wales costly towns how much the welsh assembly does care about them - the likes of Rhyl and Prestatyn used to be top notch seaside resorts when i was growing up - now they are terrible places.

They would almost be better going up with Chester/Cheshire and becoming English - not that would ever happen!

[BrilloPad]

Interestingly speaking to a welsh friend who is most upset about Brexit.

Because a lot of Wales is apparently propped up by EU subsidies.

I questioned whether he thought it was acceptable for a once great country like Wales to be reduced to scavenging for scraps from kitchen bins of the EU or should the Welsh get their act together.

As a Londoner, I reckon the further you go from the Capital the less they get given back relative to the taxes they pay.

In North Wales its even worse as the Welsh Assembly only cares about South Wales.

https://nation.cymru/2017/the-week-j...e-waste-money/

Welsh is not a waste of money. However it needs prioritising correctly. Behind hospitals, dentists and teaching. The Welsh are great people(apart from PC) - they deserve better.

[original PM]

Interestingly speaking to a welsh friend who is most upset about Brexit.

Because a lot of Wales is apparently propped up by EU subsidies.

I questioned whether he thought it was acceptable for a once great country like Wales to be reduced to scavenging for scraps from kitchen bins of the EU or should the Welsh get their act together.

[BlasterBates]

It depends on how Brexit goes, if the economy hums along without stuttering then the UK will continue on it's current Hard Brexit strategy, the Brexiteers will live happily ever after and the remoaners won't give a monkeys because in the end their concerns are not "emotional attachment", on the other hand when the lorries pile up in Folkstone, the supermarkets jack up their prices by 10% and Nissan closes its Tyneside factory the government will be gone within milliseconds, there will be new elections and Brexit will go into full reverse.

[original PM]

I’ll just leave this here for B.B.:

And in 3 years time if Labour win the next GE then this may be relevant.

Although by then it may be too late .....

[meridian]

Isn't that what I said?

I'm happy to agree with myself.

Yep, that’s why I left it there for B.B...

[jamesbrown]

Isn't that what I said?

I'm happy to agree with myself.

[meridian]

No, on the contrary, I've said numerous times that Corbyn is your best hope for a "soft" Brexit . It isn't going to happen under the Tories (unless you call CETA "soft"). It's ironic, because Corbyn is a hardcore Brexiteer, not a moderate, but he's got his eye on the bigger prize. If the Tories split, what follows would be highly unpredictable (ordinarily, it wouldn't be an election, because the Tories are ruthless with leadership transitions, but it would have to be an election with WTO). In those circumstances, Corbyn must be a realistic outcome. But, let's face it, Corbyn (or, rather, McDonnell), would make WTO look like a cakewalk.

I’ll just leave this here for B.B.:

[woohoo]

Blame the foreigners...

Send them home if they don't pay enough tax...

We don't vote for MEPs...

The powers that be hate democracy...

your blood pressure must be through the roof.