Reply to: Doh!

[northernladyuk]

I know who my MEP is and when I can see him. This is one of the problems with the UK, people haven't really bothered about the EU which is why most people are ignorant about it and have to Google facts about it after the event has happened

Forget Tony Blair, the real shocker about Brexit is that it's made darmy sound reasonable.

[darmstadt]

I know who my MEP is and when I can see him. This is one of the problems with the UK, people haven't really bothered about the EU which is why most people are ignorant about it and have to Google facts about it after the event has happened

[BrilloPad]

In future it would be helpful if you could clearly state that you are making a point.

In future it would be helpful if you could clearly state you are a twunt.

Actually, I think we already know. Don't bother.

[meridian]

Doh!

So you believe the EU are totally altruistic? The track record would tend to suggest very much the opposite.
And I think the Tories are far from perfect, just not quite as far from perfect as any of the alternatives. I don't believe those regions would be any better off under Labour, if that's what you're asking. But that's getting off the point. EU "subsidies" are nothing more than bribes, often pointless and a total waste of money, but if it makes the EU look like a friendly benefactor, what's not to like?

EU subsidies are far more than “bribes”, they are assessed on economic and social criteria to provide benefits not only to the region receiving them, but also the wider EU community. Upgrading infrastructure in Spain, Poland, etc means that our goods reach them quicker and easier, and vice versa, reducing supply chain costs with net benefits to all consumers. Subsidies to local communities reduce the migration of people to the larger cities and sustain job creation locally.

It’s far from perfect - Eg Dyson, a billionaire, receiving millions in farm subsidies. But investing (subsidising) in less well-off areas of the EU increases economic output and gains across the whole.

Sure, the UK could do this in its own regions. But as a member of a collective (the EU) we also benefit ourselves by raising the game in other EU countries.

Effectively the UK is now saying, we don’t want to help pay for your infrastructure (EU membership) but we want to profit from you all paying for it (FTA).

[northernladyuk]

I don't know who my MEPs are, and I don't give a flying tulip. I was making the point to Darmy about how they are not OUR elected representatives, because the whole system is fooked from the start. Go and have a lie down love - think of it as a busman's holiday...

In future it would be helpful if you could clearly state that you are making a point.

[Mordac]

Oh you poor little snowflake. Having to google who your MEPs are! How do you get through life, when it's clearly so tough?

I don't know who my MEPs are, and I don't give a flying tulip. I was making the point to Darmy about how they are not OUR elected representatives, because the whole system is fooked from the start. Go and have a lie down love - think of it as a busman's holiday...

[BlasterBates]

The UK will still effectively be in the EU once the deal has been agreed, but at least they'll be spared the hassle of going to vote for their MEP.

[northernladyuk]

Exactly, nobody has a fecking clue who their MEPs are, or how to communicate with them, unless they use google and find out they are on Twitter.

Oh you poor little snowflake. Having to google who your MEPs are! How do you get through life, when it's clearly so tough?

[northernladyuk]

I live in London, which has 8 MEPs. That is not even the illusion of democracy, we are simply expected to vote for our "favourite" party and we get given our MEPs from the party lists based on the proportion of votes. It is why I only ever vote UKIP in EU elections, although I fully expect them to be useless at least they are doing their best to make themselves redundant.
Elected representatives should be accountable to the electorate, but with PR they are only accountable to their party. Fortunately we won't have to concern ourselves with such matters for much longer.

There is no right answer in the FPP vs PR debate. The former ensures better representation for voters, and the latter closer accountability of elected representatives to the electorate.

But you are somewhat missing the point about European elections as the party list system is not prescribed by the EU (I think). The UK parliament could decide to implement a single transferable vote single member constituency (again, I think).

[Mordac]

I didn't even know which MEP's represented the NW. Looked at the first one on http://www.europarl.europa.eu - Theresa Griffin, degree in theatre studies and English. Did have a stint as a contractor though. But not inspiring.

Exactly, nobody has a fecking clue who their MEPs are, or how to communicate with them, unless they use google and find out they are on Twitter.
At least my MP holds a weekly surgery, and knocks on my door come election time. Despite the fact he's getting on a bit and is now his party's leader.

[woohoo]

Actually the money spent in the UK is voted on by your elected representatives in the EU. Much like MP's in parliament will also vote on such subjects or do faceless civil servants just decide on where it goes?

I didn't even know which MEP's represented the NW. Looked at the first one on http://www.europarl.europa.eu - Theresa Griffin, degree in theatre studies and English. Did have a stint as a contractor though. But not inspiring.

[Mordac]

Actually the money spent in the UK is voted on by your elected representatives in the EU. Much like MP's in parliament will also vote on such subjects or do faceless civil servants just decide on where it goes?

I live in London, which has 8 MEPs. That is not even the illusion of democracy, we are simply expected to vote for our "favourite" party and we get given our MEPs from the party lists based on the proportion of votes. It is why I only ever vote UKIP in EU elections, although I fully expect them to be useless at least they are doing their best to make themselves redundant.
Elected representatives should be accountable to the electorate, but with PR they are only accountable to their party. Fortunately we won't have to concern ourselves with such matters for much longer.

[northernladyuk]

So you believe the EU are totally altruistic?

What a ridiculous straw man.

[Mordac]

Ah yes, the old “evil EU, nice Tories” argument. How’s that working out for Cornwall, Wales, Yorkshire, etc?

So you believe the EU are totally altruistic? The track record would tend to suggest very much the opposite.
And I think the Tories are far from perfect, just not quite as far from perfect as any of the alternatives. I don't believe those regions would be any better off under Labour, if that's what you're asking. But that's getting off the point. EU "subsidies" are nothing more than bribes, often pointless and a total waste of money, but if it makes the EU look like a friendly benefactor, what's not to like?

[darmstadt]

The key difference being the EU decides how its money is spent in the UK, not the elected UK government. E.g. the £60m bribe to Cornwall, which didn't work out very well ()
It gives the EU the opportunity to interfere in member states where it is in the EU's interest to do so. I predict some more EU meddling in Catalonia, of a more obvious and blatant nature, if they're not doing so already.

Actually the money spent in the UK is voted on by your elected representatives in the EU. Much like MP's in parliament will also vote on such subjects or do faceless civil servants just decide on where it goes?