Reply to: Brexit talks cannot succeed

[Lance]

Cleaners are always worth talking to for their back stories.

only on their time though

[northernladyuk]

You mean like cleaners, shop assistants, refuse and recycling collectors, flight attendants etc as well as builders, bankers and IT workers.

Every where you go you can strike up conversations with people even in big cities.

Cleaners are always worth talking to for their back stories.

[SueEllen]

The issue is that we meet those migrants who eventually hit our social circles - i.e. those with similar skill sets to us who quickly find work. - I suspect they are the exception to the rule...

You mean like cleaners, shop assistants, refuse and recycling collectors, flight attendants etc as well as builders, bankers and IT workers.

Every where you go you can strike up conversations with people even in big cities.

[northernladyuk]

The issue is that we meet those migrants who eventually hit our social circles - i.e. those with similar skill sets to us who quickly find work. - I suspect they are the exception to the rule...

As to have you ever been to Austria? Well 3 years ago when visiting a client where its easier to fly to Ljubljana I didn't have to show my passport at the Austrian border, now I do.... Equally in the journey to their head office we need passports / ID cards in case we end up in the unbranded cars...

The three Iranians I knew were not allowed to work.

Anyway, have we agreed that the people who went from Austria to Germany really are refugees, according to UN definitions?

[eek]

It is always interesting talking to refugees. I've never met a Syrian refugee, but I've been acquainted in different wayswith five refugees I can recall:

• One of my university lecturers arrived in the UK as a German Jewish refugee in the 1930's and stayed on in the UK to forge a successful academic career.
• A friend was ethnically cleansed from Bosnia (but didn't arrive in the UK as a refugee) and is forging a successful academic career.
• I was more vaguely acquainted with three Iranian refugees, one a convert to Christianity (an accountant) and the other two gay men (and very obviously camp - and both hairdressers). I don't know what happened to them but they expected to be deported back fto Iran after the Home Office rejected their claims.

All good hard-working people, who don't fit with the portrayal by the Mail et al.


Little reminder of the Mail's form:

The issue is that we meet those migrants who eventually hit our social circles - i.e. those with similar skill sets to us who quickly find work. - I suspect they are the exception to the rule...

As to have you ever been to Austria? Well 3 years ago when visiting a client where its easier to fly to Ljubljana I didn't have to show my passport at the Austrian border, now I do.... Equally in the journey to their head office we need passports / ID cards in case we end up in the unbranded cars...

[northernladyuk]

Have you been to Austria? How are 1.5 million going to be accommodated for without the assistance of member states?

Also I've had the chance to meet a number of refugees. Particularly those from Syria. I tulip you not, people like you and me. Back home people have this impression of religious fundamentalists cause that's all the daily mail knows. Usually from North Africa, which the refugee program was not part by the way buy MSM have decided it was, anyway.. I've met a few from Syria now first hand, people who had homes like you and me, not short of money, well educated. I've no doubt Germany received the cream of the crop - but that's no reason to cast aside our humanity.

It is always interesting talking to refugees. I've never met a Syrian refugee, but I've been acquainted in different wayswith five refugees I can recall:

• One of my university lecturers arrived in the UK as a German Jewish refugee in the 1930's and stayed on in the UK to forge a successful academic career.
• A friend was ethnically cleansed from Bosnia (but didn't arrive in the UK as a refugee) and is forging a successful academic career.
• I was more vaguely acquainted with three Iranian refugees, one a convert to Christianity (an accountant) and the other two gay men (and very obviously camp - and both hairdressers). I don't know what happened to them but they expected to be deported back fto Iran after the Home Office rejected their claims.

All good hard-working people, who don't fit with the portrayal by the Mail et al.


Little reminder of the Mail's form:

[scooterscot]

Take as an example Austria - once you are in Austria you aren't fleeing it for fear of persecution, war or violence. You are fleeing it because Germany offers migrants more money.... Your journey into Germany from Austria is economic no more no less...

Have you been to Austria? How are 1.5 million going to be accommodated for without the assistance of member states?

Also I've had the chance to meet a number of refugees. Particularly those from Syria. I tulip you not, people like you and me. Back home people have this impression of religious fundamentalists cause that's all the daily mail knows. Usually from North Africa, which the refugee program was not part by the way buy MSM have decided it was, anyway.. I've met a few from Syria now first hand, people who had homes like you and me, not short of money, well educated. I've no doubt Germany received the cream of the crop - but that's no reason to cast aside our humanity.

[scooterscot]

No, people continue to be refugees when they reach a safe country.[/I]

And I would not call Turkey exactly safe. Place is mad as a box of frogs.

[northernladyuk]

Take as an example Austria - once you are in Austria you aren't fleeing it for fear of persecution, war or violence. You are fleeing it because Germany offers migrants more money.... Your journey into Germany from Austria is economic no more no less...

Agree. But you are still a refugee from your country of origin. The UN would define you as such, whereas you stated it wouldn't.

[eek]

No, people continue to be refugees when they reach a safe country. See below:

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.

Take as an example Austria - once you are in Austria you aren't fleeing it for fear of persecution, war or violence. You are fleeing it because Germany offers migrants more money.... Your journey into Germany from Austria is economic no more no less...

[northernladyuk]

Because a refugee is only a refugee until they arrive at a safe country... How are you a refugee once you are safe?

No, people continue to be refugees when they reach a safe country. See below:

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.

[eek]

How so?

Because a refugee is only a refugee until they arrive at a safe country... How are you a refugee once you are safe?

[northernladyuk]

No you asked why people voted the way they did - I just gave you the answer - then you attack me on the basis of how I told you others voted.

Also you may want to go out and about more - granted all I've mainly heard when hearing about it is the biased responses from people on the route many "refugees" took but given they walked through multiple safe countries to get to Germany they really don't meet the UN's definition of refugees...

How so?

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.

[chopper]

Also you may want to go out and about more - granted all I've mainly heard when hearing about it is the biased responses from people on the route many "refugees" took but given they walked through multiple safe countries to get to Germany they really don't meet the UN's definition of refugees...

But one day, the countries of the EU will merge into a single country, thus meaning refugees wouldn't be walking through multiple safe countries.

[eek]

UK railway companies receive more state funding than when the railways were state run. True.

subsidies per journey are down from £3.26 per journey to £1.86 per journey. And our level of subsidies is lower than any other country in europe €2 instead of the €9 or so per journey in Germany, France, Italy and Spain..