Reply to: JSA and IR35

[speling bee]

According to Citizens Advice (linky),



I guess the argument is that you either aren't spending 16 hours working for your company, or if you are you aren't being paid, so that's your get out.

He's a crafty bugger so I guessed he had all bases covered.

[TheFaQQer]

According to Citizens Advice (linky),

For JSA a claimant must not be in 'remunerative work' meaning at least 16 hrs per week

I guess the argument is that you either aren't spending 16 hours working for your company, or if you are you aren't being paid, so that's your get out.

[d000hg]

What if your employer (you) employs you on a zero-hours contract? Then you can remain on JSA and they only pay you the weeks you don't earn enough - or at least I think it used to work that way?

[TheFaQQer]

Surely that counts as "actively seeking work" which is what you are supposed to do whilst signing on isn't it?

You aren't actively seeking work - you are actively seeking to find a client for your company. Some would say that as a director of the company, that was your job anyway.

Unless you are looking for someone to take you on as an employee, or inside IR35.

[NickNick]

Surely that counts as "actively seeking work" which is what you are supposed to do whilst signing on isn't it?

[speling bee]

[How] is that different?

You are still an employee but your employer has no work for you so has temporarily laid you off and is not paying you. However, if you are looking for contracts for your Ltd, isn't that working, even if not being paid?

[d000hg]

[How] is that different?

[speling bee]

Also don't you have to issue a P45 when made redundant by your company or something? Being hired and made redundant multiple times a year by the same company must look a bit complicated on some for or another?

I think PC has a dodge where his Ltd doesn't make him redundant but lays him off.

[d000hg]

Also don't you have to issue a P45 when made redundant by your company or something? Being hired and made redundant multiple times a year by the same company must look a bit complicated on some for or another?

[d000hg]

Because the Dole Office might catch you and throw the book at you.

PC

I rather meant doing bar work instead of claiming JSA.

A little bit of hassle to start with admitedly. After that its 10 mins every two weeks.

You can get into town, queue, talk to the advisor person, and get back home in 10 minutes?

[speling bee]

Just another thought...

If you are a Company Director and claiming JSA having laid yourself off (as an employee), when looking for contract work (rather than a job), does that count as working while claiming JSA, and therefore benefit fraud?

[SpontaneousOrder]

Intuitively though, ignoring the legality of it all, it strikes me as a very 'disguised employee' kind of thing to do.
I wouldn't try to map it to IR35 criteria though - it's (deliberately?) bonkers at it's simplest.

[SussexSeagull]

Although, that logic works both ways. It would be entirely consistent to moan about being taxed and then to reclaim what was taken from you via whatever means, including JSA.

I'm all for bankrupting the state, but in this instance I struggle to sympathise because i've too much self-pride in what I'm trying to achieve as a business.

This is getting somewhat off topic but somewhere along the line benefits changed from being the last resort to the government giving subsidies to business (tax credits and housing benefit) and giving tax rebates to certain lifestyle choices (Child Benefit to the middle classes).

Needs refocusing on tiding people without savings over who are between jobs and helping those who genuinely can't work for medical reasons.

[SpontaneousOrder]

If you do claim JSA when you don't really need it (i.e. you can live until your next contract without it), then don't moan next time you pay tax.

Although, that logic works both ways. It would be entirely consistent to moan about being taxed and then to reclaim what was taken from you via whatever means, including JSA.

I'm all for bankrupting the state, but in this instance I struggle to sympathise because i've too much self-pride in what I'm trying to achieve as a business.

[SussexSeagull]

If you do claim JSA when you don't really need it (i.e. you can live until your next contract without it), then don't moan next time you pay tax.