Witheld Expenses

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Definitely speak to a lawyer - we are all happy to try and help but none of us is qualified to give a legal opinion (as far as I know )

[UkPilot]

Hi CP,

Yes they use as a basis, presumably as everyone is 'singing off the same sheet' then.

As regards the Agency, their policy does not state very much on the matter only that they will pay legit expenses as long as it submitted on their form, with a Client signature and a valid invoice - all of which were provided.

To me the matter seems to be the service contract between the Client and the Agency, the service contract between myself and Agency has been adhered to on my part but they have broken it and clawed back monies without any notice or explanation - hence my questions right at the start as to where I stood.

I have approached the Agency but they are still to respond on under what/where in the terms of contract they have done it.

UK

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Yes all are legit expenses allowed by and in fact documented in the Client expense policy which as I a Contractor I have to comply with in the same way as a permie. I was based as a particular site and expenses are for such things such as travel, hotels when away, etc - all perfectly normal and previously allowed expenses for the role I am in.

Alarm bells!

The client may well use their employee expense policy as the basis for what they allow contractors to bill for, but I would be wary of agreeing to any "employee expenses policy" as you're not an employee. The expenses "policy" should have formed part of your contract.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

A few things:

* You don't "claim" expenses from your client (or the agency). You personally claim out of pocket expenses from YourCo (if you wish). YourCo *bills* the client for expenses. These re-charges are just part of your service.

* Whether you are able to re-charge expenses to the agency as part of your service is dependent entirely on your contract (however whether or not you bill the client for them, doesn't stop you claiming the expenses from YourCo, employee expenses rules permitting).

* Things may be complicated if the contract between YourCo and the agency and agency and your client do not agree when it comes to re-billing expenses.

* Expense re-charges do normally need to be agreed with the client up front either by stating them in the contract or getting written agreement (e.g. via email). Typically, the contract will say that YourCo can re-bill normal expenses (e.g. travel) as long as you can provide evidence and that additional expenses will be agreed with the client up front. Again, what does your contract say?

[DirtyDog]

To be fair, you ought to be able to reconcile what's not been paid and the agency ought to be able to give you their reconciliation as a cross check...

However, the quick resolution is to find out who is authorised to pay the expenses and get them signed off. If it turns out that expenses are not payable, then you have a discussion about the content of your contract. Your only rights to anything are what is agreed in the contract.

This.

Ask the client who is responsible for signing the expenses off, and then make sure that they do - even if that means that you have to take a piece of paper to them personally and stand there while they do it.

If the client is questioning the whole idea of paying expenses, and there is nothing in your contract to support this idea, then you have to start negotiating. At this stage, take proper legal advice.

[jmo21]

Yes all are legit expenses allowed by and in fact documented in the Client expense policy which as I a Contractor I have to comply with in the same way as a permie. I was based as a particular site and expenses are for such things such as travel, hotels when away, etc - all perfectly normal and previously allowed expenses for the role I am in.

I would be inclined to consult a lawyer in that case. If they paid expenses for a period of 12 months then I would argue that the arrangement had been accepted by implication.

I thought the problem was the sign off of the expenses, not whether they are allowed in the first place?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Hi Lisa,

I have been in the contract for approx 13-14 months, the Agency have withheld/deducted the last 3 months expenses.

You point is one I raised, why did they not question this on submission of the first expense invoice 12 months ago? No answer as of yet!

UK

I would be inclined to consult a lawyer in that case. If they paid expenses for a period of 12 months then I would argue that the arrangement had been accepted by implication.

[jmo21]

I don't think the agent should have done this, but why, after three months is this still not resolved?

What does the end client say in response to who is to approve the expenses?

It doesn't really matter why it took this long to realise they guy shouldn't have been approving, what matters is finding someone who can.

[UkPilot]

Hi Lisa,

I have been in the contract for approx 13-14 months, the Agency have withheld/deducted the last 3 months expenses.

You point is one I raised, why did they not question this on submission of the first expense invoice 12 months ago? No answer as of yet!

UK

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

What's written in your contract is the over-riding consideration here. However, you could argue (with the help of a lawyer) that, as expenses were authorised and, presumably, paid for some considerable time that there is an 'implied' contract.

How long has this been going on for and do you have copies of the authorised expense claims?

[UkPilot]

Hi Eirikir,

Yes all are legit expenses allowed by and in fact documented in the Client expense policy which as I a Contractor I have to comply with in the same way as a permie. I was based as a particular site and expenses are for such things such as travel, hotels when away, etc - all perfectly normal and previously allowed expenses for the role I am in.

I am gathering that the Agency wants to hold onto their money, hence my questions about how the Agency went about it. As I said I am willing to help them recover the money but not happy with how they have suddenly made a deduction. The expenses in question had been submitted countersigned by the Clients person who believed he had authority to sign them, I had followed the procedure as I had had it explained to me.

I guess the ultimate question is : Can the Agency do this?

UK.

[malvolio]

To be fair, you ought to be able to reconcile what's not been paid and the agency ought to be able to give you their reconciliation as a cross check...

However, the quick resolution is to find out who is authorised to pay the expenses and get them signed off. If it turns out that expenses are not payable, then you have a discussion about the content of your contract. Your only rights to anything are what is agreed in the contract.

[Eirikur]

Before it is possible to answer your questions we need to understand the following:
Is there anything in your contract about expenses? or do you have any emails to back up the fact you are allowed to claim back expenses?
What sort of expenses are they? Expenses you make for you Ltd company, such as mileage home - client or expenses made on behalf of the client for example travel between client office and secondary location. The former is normally not claimable but the latter is.

Always keep in mind agencies are there for themselves to make money, not to help you.

[UkPilot]

Hello All,

I am new poster here so here goes my first query!

I am a UK Contractor working in engineering through a UK Agency for a UK Client. I am set up as a Ltd Company and charge a day rate, upon which they add their fee and invoice the Client. I invoice the Agency and get paid.

I have been on a long term contract submitting separate invoices for time sheets and expenses. I inquired on the first day who signed these and my boss said he did. All was going well until recently when it emerged that my boss did not have the authority to sign off the expenses part of my invoice.

Subsequently they have refused to pay the expenses to the Agency and the Agency have now removed the amount in question (which is several thousand pounds!), from my latest invoice. I have been through the Agencies T&C's and cannot find any clause that allows them to do this. The deduction was also done without consulting me and also there is no breakdown as to what invoices, etc, these deductions relate to! Basically a right mess!!

So my questions are:

1) Can they deduct/withhold the expense payments?

2) Should they have give me written notice prior to doing so?

3) If they will not reimburse me until they sort it with their Client, what is the best course of action?

4) Are there any previous examples of this issue I can refer to to help my case?


I go through an Agency to protect myself from this sort of issue and it is why they earn a fee so I am very disappointed in the Agency concern. I have told they I will assist them in recovery from their Client and will not 'abandon them'.

Regards,
UK.