Reply to: Planning to go contracting before MBA

[BlasterBates]

gr8 stuff glad it's working out.

Well paying IT contracts is one of the best ways of making a living

I don't know if you intend to do an MBA, but there are some great distance learning courses. I can really recommend Warwick, in my view probably the best course.

[northernladuk]

Revisiting my old thread...

Well, I managed to find a good contract, and started within a week of finishing up my permanent role. I've been on the contract for almost 2 years now, and about to be renewed again hopefully.

This was probably the most apt advice:



My life goals have changed a lot since I started looking at contracting, and I'm certainly less interested in post MBA-style jobs. I think what I really want to do is move to a 3 or 4 day week, and have a couple of side projects for some extra cash.

Anyway - the advice on this thread was much appreciated.

Nice to see a thread resurrection with a good outcome. Now it's just the 24 month rule to consider...

[tpsman]

Revisiting my old thread...

Well, I managed to find a good contract, and started within a week of finishing up my permanent role. I've been on the contract for almost 2 years now, and about to be renewed again hopefully.

This was probably the most apt advice:

...and just think for a moment would you really want to do 14 hour days at McKinsey? wouldn't be better to earn 600 a day at an Investment bank where you go home at 5 pm because you're a contractor.

My life goals have changed a lot since I started looking at contracting, and I'm certainly less interested in post MBA-style jobs. I think what I really want to do is move to a 3 or 4 day week, and have a couple of side projects for some extra cash.

Anyway - the advice on this thread was much appreciated.

[JPennW]

Don't want to break the bad news, If all you have is the agents word, you have nothing, keep looking, you will never get a start date.

Why would a client hire a contractor with great qualifications that could not do the job.? thats pointless

I can do the job, and have been doing it for years. However, it is the agent's word only at the moment so will see what happens whilst keeping my eye out for other roles.

Cheers

[tarbera]

Start date limbo ????

Hello all,

Long time follower, first time poster. I'm thinking of following a similar route to the Op, going contracting then MBA. I also looked at Oxford/Cambridge/LSE, but to be honest the fees are exorbitant and as people have pointed out, the value compared to long term benefit must be considered. I'd not even thought about US schools.

I'm not a top school grad, and am in my early 30's. I've apparently won a contract but I posed a problem to the interviewer in that my software knowledge isn't great but experience and qualifications are very good. The recruiter isn't great in keeping me up to date so I'm in a state of limbo. All good fun I'm sure many of you have experienced!

A good few points here I'd not considered so thanks all, very useful.

A lot of interest in the MOOC style distance learning, have you thought about that in the meantime as an intro to some of the business topics? EdX, Alison etc are good, and backed by MIT, Harvard etc.

Don't want to break the bad news, If all you have is the agents word, you have nothing, keep looking, you will never get a start date.

Why would a client hire a contractor with great qualifications that could not do the job.? thats pointless

[tpsman]

'but I need to research whether the rate that's being offered is reasonable.'

Ask here and you will be told

BA = 400
PM = 500
SPM = 650
Etc

Whats the role.?

It's sort of a technical lead role. I had a chat with a contracting colleague who has many more years than I, and he has confirmed its a good rate. Now, fingers crossed that the offer comes through, then I need to worry about how to break the news to my current employers. They are not going to be happy!

[JPennW]

Hello all,

Long time follower, first time poster. I'm thinking of following a similar route to the Op, going contracting then MBA. I also looked at Oxford/Cambridge/LSE, but to be honest the fees are exorbitant and as people have pointed out, the value compared to long term benefit must be considered. I'd not even thought about US schools.

I'm not a top school grad, and am in my early 30's. I've apparently won a contract but I posed a problem to the interviewer in that my software knowledge isn't great but experience and qualifications are very good. The recruiter isn't great in keeping me up to date so I'm in a state of limbo. All good fun I'm sure many of you have experienced!

A good few points here I'd not considered so thanks all, very useful.

A lot of interest in the MOOC style distance learning, have you thought about that in the meantime as an intro to some of the business topics? EdX, Alison etc are good, and backed by MIT, Harvard etc.

[tarbera]

In the time since my first post, I'm on the verge of one contract, with another being offered for start in January. Unfortunately, the first is likely to be too long to start the MBA next year, and the other too short to pay me without having to get a loan to do the MBA. I'm still likely to take the first, but I need to research whether the rate that's being offered is reasonable.

Thanks for the advice all - it is appreciated, and I am also listening to posters questioning whether the MBA is worthwhile. I'm still not sure, but I need a break from my current role, and both contracting and doing the MBA seem like ways of getting that.

'but I need to research whether the rate that's being offered is reasonable.'

Ask here and you will be told

BA = 400
PM = 500
SPM = 650
Etc

Whats the role.?

[tpsman]

I think you are kidding yourself a little bit here. The hardest part of contracting is getting your first gig, the second hardest is getting your second one without a long stint on the bench. You have to try and dovetail leaving perm to go contracting which is very difficult. The only way to do it properly is to jack your job in and start looking so more risk of bench time before you even start. With such an aggressive timescales just a month or two on the bench is going to put your overall money in bank lower than if you stayed perm

What you want to charge is irrelevant. It is how much the gigs are paying. Researching jobserve can help you here.

Have you thought about an Open University MBA? I did the first 2 years of the course which gets you some certificate in Management (forget the actual name), costs a lot less and you continue to work. I didn't go beyond this as I started working at a level that the full MBA wouldn't have added any value so got what I wanted from it in just 2 years. Why such a big commitment for an MBA. Are you sure this route will pay for itself in the long term? Will it match you skills to be help you make the jump from where you are to where you want to be?

I don't think dipping in to contracting just to suit your personal circumstances is ever a good idea. It's not a free ride, it's a way of life but that is just my personal opinion.

In the time since my first post, I'm on the verge of one contract, with another being offered for start in January. Unfortunately, the first is likely to be too long to start the MBA next year, and the other too short to pay me without having to get a loan to do the MBA. I'm still likely to take the first, but I need to research whether the rate that's being offered is reasonable.

Thanks for the advice all - it is appreciated, and I am also listening to posters questioning whether the MBA is worthwhile. I'm still not sure, but I need a break from my current role, and both contracting and doing the MBA seem like ways of getting that.

[edison]

The worth of an MBA will largely depend on your age/future direction

Have to agree with NLUK. Firstly if your first degree is at Brighton Poly an MBA at a good Uni won't help as much as if you have Cambridge law degree, secondly you can do distance learning at good business Uni's if you want eg Cranfield, Warwick. You'll have the same knowhow as the fulltimers, for a fraction of the fees.

Most fulltimers are sponsered by the way, i.e. they're already on the way to the top.

Is it worth paying money to "make connections"? I hardly see you are going to make more than a handful of friends, who will forget you unless you have something to offer ("I work as an asset manager at J.P Morgan"). If you are going through Harvard law school, Stanford Business school and you've already had your first job at JP Morgan sure ...it may be worth it.

As an example my brother in law was sponsered to do an MBA at Cranfield by an big oil company. He's actually doing the same job as he was before, he's just got a bit better background. He was on a part-time course. That is mainly what you can expect. Just have an edge when it comes to being a middle manager. It won't make you into a top manager/top management consultant unless you are being groomed.

As someone who went to what was then Brighton Poly for my degree, I wouldn't totally agree with the statement about a first degree but it depends on your age, how long ago the first degree was and where you are doing your MBA. If you've got an MBA from London Business School but did your first degree 15 years ago then it is probably of much less interest to potential employers. As the OP is planning to spend £60k on an 18 month course I assume he is looking at one of the most prestigious/expensive UK schools like LBS or Cambridge. I'd suggest to the OP to really be clear with himself what he wants the MBA for and how it will improve future prospects considering the huge expense of fees plus lost earnings.

Many MBA students traditionally came from technical backgrounds like engineering then went to work in finance/commerce/consulting post graduation. If you are a potential high flyer in that sort of field, the competition is very tough. There are a lot of very bright people in their mid-20s who have got first degrees from Oxbridge, Imperial etc with top class MBAs.

I have had a similar dilemma this year albeit I am in my 40s. I narrowed my choices to doing a Masters at City Business School (not an MBA) or a shorter distance learning post graduate diploma at Stanford in the US (often cited as the best business school in the world after Harvard.) A friend of mine who is a software development techie but did an MBA summarised it thus:

If you want to get the name recognition/brand and develop high flying contacts then do the Stanford course. If you want to improve your education do the City one instead.

Being older than a lot of potential masters students, I already have a good network of high flying friends and acquaintances. In the end I parked it for a year and left my high paying perm job to go contracting with a view to starting the course in Autumn 2014.

However, no MBA can make up for a lack of soft skills which really make the difference in the corporate world: communication, management, team building, presentation, assertiveness, empathy etc.

[Podgy]

I think you are kidding yourself a little bit here. The hardest part of contracting is getting your first gig, the second hardest is getting your second one without a long stint on the bench. You have to try and dovetail leaving perm to go contracting which is very difficult. The only way to do it properly is to jack your job in and start looking so more risk of bench time before you even start. With such an aggressive timescales just a month or two on the bench is going to put your overall money in bank lower than if you stayed perm

What you want to charge is irrelevant. It is how much the gigs are paying. Researching jobserve can help you here.

Have you thought about an Open University MBA? I did the first 2 years of the course which gets you some certificate in Management (forget the actual name), costs a lot less and you continue to work. I didn't go beyond this as I started working at a level that the full MBA wouldn't have added any value so got what I wanted from it in just 2 years. Why such a big commitment for an MBA. Are you sure this route will pay for itself in the long term? Will it match you skills to be help you make the jump from where you are to where you want to be?

I don't think dipping in to contracting just to suit your personal circumstances is ever a good idea. It's not a free ride, it's a way of life but that is just my personal opinion.

Diploma in Management Studies (DMS) - thought you could do an MBA in a year after that - part-time (if your bright enough!)

[Dominic Connor]

The value of "connections" is highly variable, I have to say that some of the worst consequences of my less optimal career decisions have been made less bad by them.

[BlasterBates]

Have to agree with NLUK. Firstly if your first degree is at Brighton Poly an MBA at a good Uni won't help as much as if you have Cambridge law degree, secondly you can do distance learning at good business Uni's if you want eg Cranfield, Warwick. You'll have the same knowhow as the fulltimers, for a fraction of the fees.

Most fulltimers are sponsered by the way, i.e. they're already on the way to the top.

Is it worth paying money to "make connections"? I hardly see you are going to make more than a handful of friends, who will forget you unless you have something to offer ("I work as an asset manager at J.P Morgan"). If you are going through Harvard law school, Stanford Business school and you've already had your first job at JP Morgan sure ...it may be worth it.

As an example my brother in law was sponsered to do an MBA at Cranfield by an big oil company. He's actually doing the same job as he was before, he's just got a bit better background. He was on a part-time course. That is mainly what you can expect. Just have an edge when it comes to being a middle manager. It won't make you into a top manager/top management consultant unless you are being groomed.

[northernladuk]

Because I believe that undertaking an MBA at a crap school isn't worth the money? Or because I think an MBA at a good school creates its value in the connections you make?

Feel free to say both.

There is a lot more to making connections at a good school. You social standing and personal connections is worth a lot more than thinking you can get in with a load of guys on the same course. It is also how these top guys perceive you. Are you likely to be an industry leader with personal and business contacts they can leverage or are you just a middle of the road IT man thinking he can get in with the big boys.

My MBA course with OU taught me what I needed to grow in my career and to move from tech to business. I do believe all the management theory I learnt and applied helped me bridge the gap and move up the chain. Even just demonstrating you knew about them to people that already did helps you up the chain. Having a discussion and pointing out that removing de-motivators can be the best/quickest way to motivate and considering hearts and minds in large change etc. Doesn't matter what school you got it from if you can apply it properly. No one has ever asked me where I did mine and I never tell unless someone else is doing an OU degree so we have a chat about that.

Applying good knowledge in a career outstrips dropping names of the Uni where you did your career in the long run so isn't really required IMO.

[PEEL]

Can't put in to words how much crap I think this is.

Because I believe that undertaking an MBA at a crap school isn't worth the money? Or because I think an MBA at a good school creates its value in the connections you make?

Feel free to say both.