Reply to: Notice period for early termination: "14 days"

[Earl Purple]

In the contract it says "notice period". You could interpret it as a clause for withdrawing the work, but not really because my contract is only with the agency, who have agreed to pay me for a certain period of time as long as I show up for work. Whether the client has any is irrelevant. Of course "showing up" can just mean being able and willing to work for this particular client and not necessarily having to travel to any particular location.

The client has an agreement with the agency that they may give notice to terminate the contract if they do not have work for me. They can either give notice at a point of time up to 2 weeks in advance of when they would like the contract to end. Or if they do not want me to come to work, they must compensate the agency.

Obviously there are precedents for early termination of contract, but I wanted to know of precedents where:
- The contractor was told not to turn up and
- There was a given notice period and
- The notice period given was stated in days and
- The agreement was a daily rate.

Thus exactly the same case as mine.

[SueEllen]

There were far greater things in this "contract" that raise IR35 issues. Some clauses in the contract are clearly there to try to avoid IR35.

Then there are clauses like 10.1 that states:

"This agreement shall commence on the Commencement Date as set out in the Assignment Specification and shall continue until the anticipated end date as set out in the Assignment Specification, or until completion of the Services to the reasonable satisfaction of the Client at which time this Agreement shall expire automatically unless previously terminated by <Agency name> or the Contractor giving the other party the period of notice specified in the Assignment Specification"

Essentially saying, if I work faster and meet my deadlines earlier, the contract automatically terminates earlier. In that case though, I would expect a rate set in advance for the work done, and then paid for the completion of the task on delivery. Someone here please tell me where I can find contracts like that. And where I can sub-hire whoever I like to help me get it done quicker.

While you may expect that what you would get is paid your day rate until you finished the specified task and no more.

However the clients I've finished a task early for have ended up offering me an extension with a change of task details to do different work.

I know some clients do not do this.

Edited to say:
The clause in the contract is to explain clearly to some dumbass contractors that their work is task/project specific.

[TheFaQQer]

I do know a bit about contracting, been doing it longer than most of you.

I have actually been contracting since 1998

Is there a previous case?

You expect people to read that and believe that you've been contracting since 1998 and never heard of a contract being terminated early and someone wanting to be paid for not doing the work??

troll ??

Yep

[northernladuk]

That is a standard clause between this agency and the contractor. I have actually been contracting since 1998 so before IR35. Rates used to be hourly and when I finally returned to contracting after the dot-com crash found they were now daily.

The actual reason for termination was not actually that the work had been completed, but was more "politics" within the client who decided that the work should be moved to a different department, i.e. in a different billing scheme for them, and therefore my work did not fit under the projects of the team under which I had been hired (you could say the actual team whose budget I came under).

Of course they didn't say "budget" they said "headcount" as they do.

So your work is complete.... Definition of complete could be up for discussion but it doesn't matter a jot. It is reasons like this clients use a flexible workforce.

[minstrel]

I would read it as you can bill them in lieu of notice for every working day for the next 14 calendar days notice effective from the close of business on the day they served notice.

So if they served notice on the 15th May then you bill for all the normal business days (ie, not statutory holidays or weekends) from 16th May to 29th May inclusive that you would have been available for work but none was offered.

+1

[Earl Purple]

That is a standard clause between this agency and the contractor. I have actually been contracting since 1998 so before IR35. Rates used to be hourly and when I finally returned to contracting after the dot-com crash found they were now daily.

The actual reason for termination was not actually that the work had been completed, but was more "politics" within the client who decided that the work should be moved to a different department, i.e. in a different billing scheme for them, and therefore my work did not fit under the projects of the team under which I had been hired (you could say the actual team whose budget I came under).

Of course they didn't say "budget" they said "headcount" as they do.

[northernladuk]

There were far greater things in this "contract" that raise IR35 issues. Some clauses in the contract are clearly there to try to avoid IR35.

Then there are clauses like 10.1 that states:

"This agreement shall commence on the Commencement Date as set out in the Assignment Specification and shall continue until the anticipated end date as set out in the Assignment Specification, or until completion of the Services to the reasonable satisfaction of the Client at which time this Agreement shall expire automatically unless previously terminated by <Agency name> or the Contractor giving the other party the period of notice specified in the Assignment Specification"

Essentially saying, if I work faster and meet my deadlines earlier, the contract automatically terminates earlier. In that case though, I would expect a rate set in advance for the work done, and then paid for the completion of the task on delivery. Someone here please tell me where I can find contracts like that. And where I can sub-hire whoever I like to help me get it done quicker.

Well it is up to you to negotiate so the ball is in your court. A contract is an agreement between the two parties and you are one of them. Start looking around for clients that will go on a fixed price contract instead. Unfortunately in this day and age contractors are used just to fill bums on seats rather than deliver set pieces of work so the market dictates you are not going to find what you are after. You want to be bidding for pieces of work not contracting if that is what you are after. Slight problem of PSL's though, among many others.

Why do you think that is an IR35 issue? It seems like a decent pointer to me. Permies don't get that clause. You did get it reviewed before you started?

Wouldn't that be one of the clauses they would pull to terminate you early and not pay you though so answering your own issue?

[mos]

This kind of situation must have come up before. Is there a previous case?

troll ??

[Earl Purple]

There were far greater things in this "contract" that raise IR35 issues. Some clauses in the contract are clearly there to try to avoid IR35.

Then there are clauses like 10.1 that states:

"This agreement shall commence on the Commencement Date as set out in the Assignment Specification and shall continue until the anticipated end date as set out in the Assignment Specification, or until completion of the Services to the reasonable satisfaction of the Client at which time this Agreement shall expire automatically unless previously terminated by <Agency name> or the Contractor giving the other party the period of notice specified in the Assignment Specification"

Essentially saying, if I work faster and meet my deadlines earlier, the contract automatically terminates earlier. In that case though, I would expect a rate set in advance for the work done, and then paid for the completion of the task on delivery. Someone here please tell me where I can find contracts like that. And where I can sub-hire whoever I like to help me get it done quicker.

[northernladuk]

You didn't read my post. Do you bother to read posts before you reply. If the client does not let you work the notice, they are in breach of contract. The contract is that they have to give notice. They can offer to pay as though you did work it.

Bzzzzzt Wrong. Why should they let you work if there is nothing for you to do? In fact the client insists you work your notice in that situation it would cause a pretty serious IR35 problem. Permies get paid gardening leave, we don't, we get paid for the work we do. Payment in lieu will also cause you IR35 issues.

They can give you notice and then not offer you work. You do not work then you see your notice period out with no income.. Same outcome. Notice periods are for permies.

Utter rubbish......

[northernladuk]

Same topic covered twice in a matter of hours from low posters... well well. lol...

[Wanderer]

My contract that has a notice period of 14 days was terminated "immediately" on 15 May, and I was not required to work out this period.

I am querying how many days actually to invoice for the unworked days. If I had worked out the notice, they would probably have meant working until 29 May. I would have not worked weekends or the Bank Holiday Monday on 27 May.

However, having been not required to work, it is not certain how many days I should actually bill. I am also uncertain if the date itself, i.e. 15 May, would be one of these days.

I would read it as you can bill them in lieu of notice for every working day for the next 14 calendar days notice effective from the close of business on the day they served notice.

So if they served notice on the 15th May then you bill for all the normal business days (ie, not statutory holidays or weekends) from 16th May to 29th May inclusive that you would have been available for work but none was offered.

[stek]

I did read your post. Have you read your contract? What does it say if the client has no work for you?

If you think you have a shot, go ahead and sue them.

WCS

Stop thinking like an employee, think more like a window-cleaner.

[cojak]

You didn't read my post. Do you bother to read posts before you reply. If the client does not let you work the notice, they are in breach of contract. The contract is that they have to give notice. They can offer to pay as though you did work it.

However I do not have a contract with the client at all, only with the agency.

I did read your post. Have you read your contract? What does it say if the client has no work for you?

If you think you have a shot, go ahead and sue them.

[Earl Purple]

I guess somebody will have to look at the whole contract to see what the terms are when notice is given.

It also depends on what are the terms of "providing service". If the client decides that during the notice period "providing service" involves not doing anything, you are doing that?