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Previously on "Accountant Letter of Engagement does not reflect the information I was given earlier"

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  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    I do understand your explanation as to why they refrain from commenting their TCs however I do disagree with such a practice. If I have a TCs and my client ask me for an explanation I do explain.

    Yes, absolutely irritating to deal with multiple point of contacts! One doesn't know about what the other one has said a day ago and so I have to explain the whole thing again. Furthermore they will not have the same view on the same issue. Absolutely frustrating!
    SJD are not irritating at all. I get a lady send me a reminder to send my spreadseet in to calc VAT and they send me back a nice detailed list of exactly what to file and the link to the page. Total time about 1 minute.

    I get another lady asking to send in my spreadsheet at year end, which I send it and get a mail back with the results. Total effort to me, just the time it takes to check the numbers.

    I haven't needed to respond to either of these contacts in 4 years.

    I have however spoken to my accountant numerous times and I can't remember an instance he didn't reply to me within the day. Much rather someone else doing the leg work to free the expert up so I can speak to him rather than him being knee deep in VAT calcs all day. I did however have a one man band before and I couldn't speak to him most of January and other tax deadlines as he was too busy.

    11k contractors aren't frustrated by it. Take it from me at least, it isn't irritating in the slightest. I would say it works very well indeed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulliver
    replied
    Originally posted by Wanderer View Post
    If the accountant had explained this then you could argue that it formed part of the contract and perhaps varied what was written there. If we explain it to you then it's merely an interpretation of what the accountant said. Can you see why the accountant doesn't want to elaborate on their standard terms?



    SJD do allocate you an accountant who is supposed to be your primary contact but you deal with quite a number of different people for VAT/PAYE/Self Assessment etc which some people may find irritating.

    You probably want to speak to a few accountants and say you want a single point of contact if you are looking for a more personal service.
    I do understand your explanation as to why they refrain from commenting their TCs however I do disagree with such a practice. If I have a TCs and my client ask me for an explanation I do explain.

    Yes, absolutely irritating to deal with multiple point of contacts! One doesn't know about what the other one has said a day ago and so I have to explain the whole thing again. Furthermore they will not have the same view on the same issue. Absolutely frustrating!

    Leave a comment:


  • Wanderer
    replied
    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    Great, that someone from a forum was willing to explain me all this but my accountant was unwilling to.
    If the accountant had explained this then you could argue that it formed part of the contract and perhaps varied what was written there. If we explain it to you then it's merely an interpretation of what the accountant said. Can you see why the accountant doesn't want to elaborate on their standard terms?

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    I prefer personal service. Do SJD give you a personal account manager / accountant?
    SJD do allocate you an accountant who is supposed to be your primary contact but you deal with quite a number of different people for VAT/PAYE/Self Assessment etc which some people may find irritating.

    You probably want to speak to a few accountants and say you want a single point of contact if you are looking for a more personal service.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulliver
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    I would then strongly suggest you speak to Nixon Williams, In Touch and SJD. They all support freeagent. I see BFCA is listed on the freeagent site and they are contractor specific also. I tried a local bod and he didn't know contracting so supplied me with a really poor service. I switched to SJD and haven't had a hiccup in 4 years. I have never had to or felt the need to go meet them in all that time so strongly believe that a better, knowledgeable service tailored to my needs is much much more important than popping round to see someone who doesn't know my business inside out.
    Of course being local is not the most important. I just checked freeagent and they were listed in my town, so I thought it's bingo. I talked to them on the phone and they confirmed they ticked all the boxes - bingo. They sent me the letter of engagement - disappointment.

    I'm hesitant to use a large accountancy service because I prefer personal service. I want to talk to one accountant not 3! Do SJD give you a personal account manager / accountant?

    Also, do SJD give you a proper contract that includes the services they will carry out?
    Last edited by Gulliver; 17 January 2013, 10:07.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulliver
    replied
    Originally posted by Sockpuppet View Post
    THink, how will they know what you have spend. Basically this means. Don't give us some bank statements showing lots of cash withdrawals and expect us to be able to do anything.



    You're a small company. You are.



    "True and Fair" is accounting legal term. Basically it means they've made sure your not pulling a fast one. Small companies do not need the accountant to do this.



    Only really applies if they inherit some accounts from another firm. Or you say I'm devaluating this at 75% per annum when its accepted its 20%.



    It can calculate profit. The tax system is complex. Let the accountant do it.



    You buy a van.



    Some accountants charge for a PAYE service.



    If you hire anyone you need to find out their tax code.



    Change to PAYE tax codes. You get them you need to give them to the accountant.



    If you want them to pay your tax for you I suppose. Personally I don't think there is a need for this.



    Ask. Could be for "non standard" work. Could also just be catch all.
    Great, that someone from a forum was willing to explain me all this but my accountant was unwilling to.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulliver
    replied
    Originally posted by Jessica@WhiteFieldTax View Post
    Problem is they've used a bog standard letter of engagement - almost certainly a template from a professional body - which hasn't been tailored to clients needs.

    It happens often, but it's sloppy I'm afraid.

    It would be ok - if it reflected the agreement - for a general client, however for a contractor where services are being bundled up fixed price it needs to be smarter.

    I've always avoided the professional bodies templates for these reasons, and written my own bottom up.

    I'm always nervous about commenting publicly on competitors - there but for grace of god - but it strikes me the haven't really thought their services and documentation through. Doesn't bode well.
    Exactly! That's my point! If I have no contract and the letter of engagement is not the contract what will bind them officially to do their work promised under the Gold Plan in the "Client Services Summary.pdf"???

    Just for starters, the Gold Plan costs a fixed monthly fee according to the Client Services Summary.pdf, the letter of engagement states that the fees are calculated on an hourly basis!!! And they want me to sign the letter of engagement not the Client Services Summary.pdf!!!

    My current accountant made sure to customise their contract to me, I always customise my contract to my client and include what services I will carry out.

    To give me a standard letter of engagement that does not reflect the services they promised me they will do is cheap!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jessica@WhiteFieldTax
    replied
    Problem is they've used a bog standard letter of engagement - almost certainly a template from a professional body - which hasn't been tailored to clients needs.

    It happens often, but it's sloppy I'm afraid.

    It would be ok - if it reflected the agreement - for a general client, however for a contractor where services are being bundled up fixed price it needs to be smarter.

    I've always avoided the professional bodies templates for these reasons, and written my own bottom up.

    I'm always nervous about commenting publicly on competitors - there but for grace of god - but it strikes me the haven't really thought their services and documentation through. Doesn't bode well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sockpuppet
    replied
    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    1.1.1 I thought it is the accountant company who is responsible for "maintaining proper accounting records and for preparing financial statements". - Could you please advise?
    THink, how will they know what you have spend. Basically this means. Don't give us some bank statements showing lots of cash withdrawals and expect us to be able to do anything.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    1.2.3 "You have told us that the company is exempt from an audit of the financial statements. We will not check whether this is the case. However, if we find that the company is not entitled to the exemption, we will inform you of this." - I have not told you this and I do not even know what is an audit and whether my company needs it. - Could you please advise?
    You're a small company. You are.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    1.2.5 "we cannot provide any assurance whether the financial statements that we prepare from those records will present a true and fair view." - I would have thought that you will make sure that the financial statements will be accurate and true. - Could you please advise?
    "True and Fair" is accounting legal term. Basically it means they've made sure your not pulling a fast one. Small companies do not need the accountant to do this.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    1.2.7 "Furthermore, as directors you have a duty to prepare financial statements that comply with the Companies Act 2006 and applicable accounting standards. If we find that the financial statements do not conform to generally accepted accounting principles, or if the accounting policies adopted are not immediately apparent, we must disclose this in the financial statements." -- Again, I would have thought that the financial statements are are prepared by you. - Could you please advise.
    Only really applies if they inherit some accounts from another firm. Or you say I'm devaluating this at 75% per annum when its accepted its 20%.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    1.5.4 "We will tell you the amounts of income corporation tax to be paid and the dates by which the company should make the payments." - I thought this is calculated automatically by Iris OpenBooks which I will have access to. Could you please confirm that I will be able to make invoices myself through the system. - Could you please advise.
    It can calculate profit. The tax system is complex. Let the accountant do it.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    1.6.2 f) "to keep us informed about significant transactions" - Could you please make an example?
    You buy a van.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    2.1.1 You will continue to deal with all matters required by law, such as • Pay As You Earn including year end returns P35/P14/P60; • forms P11D; and • returns for sub-contractors. - Could you please advise as to what this means? If possible I would like you to deal with these as well.
    Some accountants charge for a PAYE service.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    2.2.2 c) "if any casual labour is taken on, you are required to operate P46 procedures. The completed P46 form should be passed to us for processing;" - Could you please advise as to what this means?
    If you hire anyone you need to find out their tax code.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    2.2.2 i) "any notice of coding received by you." - Could you please advise as to what this means?
    Change to PAYE tax codes. You get them you need to give them to the accountant.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    PART 2

    3.1 "We may, from time to time, hold money on your behalf. The money will be held in trust in a client bank account, which is segregated from the firm's funds." - Could you please advise as to what this means?
    If you want them to pay your tax for you I suppose. Personally I don't think there is a need for this.

    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    11.1 "Our fees are calculated on the basis of the time spent on your affairs by the principals and staff and on the levels of skill or responsibility involved. Our fees will be billed when due, together with outlays and VAT and our invoices will be due for payment when issued." - I was informed that I will be paying a fixed fee for the Gold Plan. - Could you please advise?
    Ask. Could be for "non standard" work. Could also just be catch all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wanderer
    replied
    I recommend that you take independent legal advice over the letter of engagement if you are uncomfortable signing it. Rest assured that all of the points in the letter are perfectly standard in the accounting profession.

    If you are not prepared to sign the letter then, regrettably, we will not be able to act for you or your company.
    This is your answer above.

    They may sound scary to a fairly new company director, but the terms of engagement sound fairly reasonable to me. There are a number of legal responsibilities which your accountant will do their best to help you comply with but ultimately it is your responsibility as the director. Unfortunately, you are going to run into this type of thing sometimes when you run a business.

    As the accountant says - you should take independent legal advice if you aren't happy or try a different accountant though the terms don't sound all that unreasonable.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post

    I wanted to work with them because they are local and they use Freeagent which is my choice of accounting software. I do not want to go to an accountant who does not use freeagent as I want real time tax and business forecasts!
    I would then strongly suggest you speak to Nixon Williams, In Touch and SJD. They all support freeagent. I see BFCA is listed on the freeagent site and they are contractor specific also. I tried a local bod and he didn't know contracting so supplied me with a really poor service. I switched to SJD and haven't had a hiccup in 4 years. I have never had to or felt the need to go meet them in all that time so strongly believe that a better, knowledgeable service tailored to my needs is much much more important than popping round to see someone who doesn't know my business inside out.

    Leave a comment:


  • LisaContractorUmbrella
    replied
    If you have nothing in writing detailing what services will be provided to you in their 'gold plan' and there is nothing on their website then it may be worthwhile looking for another accountant - being local should not really be your prime consideration. Also, most of the questions you have put to them are about your responsibilities as a company director; if you are going to run a company you should thoroughly investigate what's involved. An accountant can only do so much for you otherwise they will risk being seen as an MSC

    Leave a comment:


  • RasputinDude
    replied
    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post


    Also, why would an accountant hold monies for me in a separate bank account???
    *IF* they need to hold money for you, then it is held in a client account; not their trading account. Solicitors do a similar thing. It is to keep *your* money away from *theirs*.

    I'd look at the sticky thread for accountants and contact one of them. Incidently, I use Contractor Accountant experts UK | Accountancy Service for contractors who are not on the list.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulliver
    replied
    Originally posted by BolshieBastard View Post
    Kinell. Have you actually gone back to them and asked them? Y'know, seeing as its their T&C's!?
    I sent them these questions and they said:

    "Most of your questions relate to the letter of engagement, the answer to your questions are basically that as a director you are responsible for the financial affairs of your company and what we do is assist you to fulfil those responsibilities. As our services cover all aspects you need not worry about any of the items in our letter of engagement. It is a standard form issued by our professional body."

    Since they didn't address the individual points, I sent them another email:

    "I confirm that I have read your responses marked with red. However, I feel that all of my questions has not been answered. Could you please reply to my individual questions one by one? I understand that this is a standard engagement letter, however, I believe that the contract I'm going to sign must reflect the information I was given from the Client Services Summary.pdf, from the Contractor Accountants | Contractor Accountants in Watford - Meades Contractors LLP website and Louise. I did not find the details or any reference to the gold plan, nor do I know why would my accountant hold money for me in a separate bank account, there is no reference in the Letter of Engagement about the use of Iris Openbooks, how my data is collected etc etc."

    to which they responded:

    "It appears to me that the confusion lies in what the letter of engagement stands for. To put it simply, it is our version of our terms and conditions and does not reflect anything to do with the service we are offering to provide you with. We don’t issue a contract for services as we don’t believe in tying clients in to contracts when their own circumstances may change and to hold them to a contract would be unfair. We also don’t need a contract because we stand by the level and professionalism of our service.

    Therefore, I recommend that you take independent legal advice over the letter of engagement if you are uncomfortable signing it. Rest assured that all of the points in the letter are perfectly standard in the accounting profession.

    If you are not prepared to sign the letter then, regrettably, we will not be able to act for you or your company."

    Confused! She is saying it's not a contract but a T&Cs but then what will make sure there is a legal document that includes all the things they promised to do in the Gold Plan? Eg if I have a debate with them and I go to a court I will only have the T&Cs in my hands. But the T&Cs does not include any reference to the gold plan and what's included in the gold plan so they can say there is no gold plan at all, I simply signed the Letter of Engagement!

    Also, why would an accountant hold monies for me in a separate bank account???

    Why can't they just answer my questions one by one?

    I wanted to work with them because they are local and they use Freeagent which is my choice of accounting software. I do not want to go to an accountant who does not use freeagent as I want real time tax and business forecasts!

    Leave a comment:


  • BolshieBastard
    replied
    Originally posted by Gulliver View Post
    Hi All,

    I'm about to switch accountants. They sent me their Letter of Engagement and I feel it does not reflect what I learn from them on the phone, on their website and in their brochures.

    First of all, I was given a PDF brochure about their plans and I decided to sign up for their gold plan. There is no mentioning of the details of the gold plan nor any reference to it
    Thanks all.
    Kinell. Have you actually gone back to them and asked them? Y'know, seeing as its their T&C's!?

    Leave a comment:


  • cojak
    replied
    If you do not understand the document the accountant has given you I would advise that you direct these questions to them.

    As we are not the accountant concerned (and we don't know the ins and outs of the offer) we will probably NOT give you the most accurate advice on these matters.

    PS. RasputinDude and NLUK have given you good general advice above. I would follow it.

    Leave a comment:

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