Reply to: Cost of an accountant

[Sarah@PaperRocket]

Unfortunately there is no full proof way to decide if an accountant is any good until you have actually used them but I guess obvious things to look for aside from the fee they charge are their qualifications (anyone can call themselves an accountant), and how many clients they look after (too many could mean they have no time to dedicate to you). You tend to get a gut feeling about people when you talk to them so my advice would be to go with someone you feel you can trust. Recommendations from friends and colleagues are always valuable too

[SueEllen]

Yep. Check out my new signature.

It's not our problem if you don't understand the difference between "recommendation" and "accreditation", and how organisations use it in the UK.

Even the accounting bodies don't recommend individual accountants even though they accredit them. They just recommend that you to use one of their accredit accountants and give you a list of names.

[Wanderer]

So you feel you can post ........

Yep. Check out my new signature.

[malvolio]

I'm sure you and malvolio will have a great old time splitting hairs over the exact semantics of what I wrote but the point I am making is that a PCG "accredited" accountant isn't necessarily one of these mythical "good" accountants we seek.

Sigh...

So you feel you can post "an accountant recommended by PCG was rubbish" without worrying too much that it is both misleading and confusing? You could just as easily - and rather more sensinbly - have blamed the ICAEW. How about if I posted "I bought a car recommended by Wanderer for having a big boot and it broke down so obviously Wanderer is not to be trusted"?

They're accredited to say they understand freelance contracting as a business, not that they are good accoutnants; they have their own bodies for that.

[Wanderer]

It's not the same thing.

I'm sure you and malvolio will have a great old time splitting hairs over the exact semantics of what I wrote but the point I am making is that a PCG "accredited" accountant isn't necessarily one of these mythical "good" accountants we seek.

[SueEllen]

Yeah, whatever. What I meant was a PCG Accredited Accountant rather than PCG recommended but for most intents and purposes its the same thing.

It's not the same thing.

As a person who is responsible for signing business contracts it's definitely worth your while making sure you understand the meaning of terms.

[Buzby]

accountant

I went with a traditional accountant recommend by my agency and was costing me over 1,500 per year. now moved to an online service and not only saving me lots of money, really happy with the system and people so far. other solutions are available, I am with Crunch.

[kaiser78]

It makes no difference how much they charge it's if they are any good.

Lots of accountants in and around London charge this much but only a few of them understand small companies that provide services instead of physical goods and how to stop new contractors getting in a mess.

For example some accountants will claim you are within IR35 when they have never seen your contract and don't know whether you have found the client yourself, or they can do your VAT for you but may not check that you have sent all the correct paperwork and then leave you in the sh*t when you are picked for a random VAT inspection.

Fair enough, although I was talking in general terms - average across the board.

[philip@wellwoodhoyle]

The whole "he should save more than he costs" spiel is something that gets trotted out all the time when talking about accountants. For a business with staff and costs and R&D then I agree. For a 1-man contractor Ltd, there aren't many little clever tricks and they are easily learned.

Some things are easy once you know how. It's acquiring the "know how" that's the tricky bit. Time and time again, I get new clients who've fouled up trying to do it themselves, or with an arrogant view that they know it all.

You may think that the FRS VAT scheme and the low salary/high dividend approach is common knowledge, but out in the real world, it isn't. I've got a couple of contractors who are qualified accountants and even they needed telling about the FRS benefits and the optimum directors wage.

Same with travelling & subsistence expenses - it's all there in black & white on HMRC's website, but people still regularly get it wrong.

Virtually everything for every trade/profession can now be found on the internet. I know that I could service my own car as I found the instructions on the web - having looked at it, I decided not to risk it and not waste my weekend, so took it to the garage instead.

Just because knowledge is widely available, doesn't mean that Joe Public has the ability to do it himself. Heaven knows I've enough clients who can't even fill out a simple expenses form without mistakes, so they've not a chance in hell of doing their own accounts & tax returns (and we're talking highly qualified people here!).

[Wanderer]

PCG don't reccomend accoutants, never have done and never will.

Yeah, whatever. What I meant was a PCG Accredited Accountant rather than PCG recommended but for most intents and purposes its the same thing.

If you're not happy with the service you're geting, don't blame PCG, blame the accountant.

And there are more than enough reccommendations across this site and the PCG boards to let you find a decent one.

Certainly not blaming the PCG, it's down to my own inertia that I don't sack my accountant. I'm just pointing out that some of the accountants who are recommended here or accredited by the PCG aren't necessarily going to be one of these mythical "good" accountants we seek.

I've found that the best way to work is to do your own research and then tell the accountant what to do. In that situation it doesn't really matter that much if they are "good" or not because all they have to do is do file the returns and accounts accurately, though my accountant can't even do that properly sometimes.

[malvolio]

I use an accountant recommended by the PCG and I think they are rubbish. Certainly, if I had not gone against their advice they would have cost me a lot of money in tax that most other contractors are quite legitimately avoiding...

So, how to I tell which accountant is a "good" one.

PCG don't reccomend accoutants, never have done and never will. All they do is tell you which ones have done the training with Abbey to ensure they understand IR35 and the rest of the things that are specific to our companies. If you're not happy with the service you're geting, don't blame PCG, blame the accountant.

And there are more than enough reccommendations across this site and the PCG boards to let you find a decent one.

[Wanderer]

And keep in the back of your mind that a good accoutnant is free while a bad one is very expensive. It's not about the price...

I use an accountant recommended by the PCG and I think they are rubbish. Certainly, if I had not gone against their advice they would have cost me a lot of money in tax that most other contractors are quite legitimately avoiding...

So, how to I tell which accountant is a "good" one.

[SueEllen]

They can still get themselves in a mess even with an accountant

True but they get into less of a mess especially if they get one who tells them they can take x out this month for dividends and y for expenses.

[d000hg]

They can still get themselves in a mess even with an accountant

[SueEllen]

The whole "he should save more than he costs" spiel is something that gets trotted out all the time when talking about accountants. For a business with staff and costs and R&D then I agree. For a 1-man contractor Ltd, there aren't many little clever tricks and they are easily learned.

I still advocate using an accountant but not as a way to increase profit - if you want that then one of these cookie-cutter contractor accountants (who are great) is not where you're going to find that.

You obviously haven't met contractors who have got themselves in a right mess.

While some of us will do our accounts, read up and ask questions on various tax regulations other people just hand everything over.