Reply to: Expenses - I don't believe this

[malvolio]

But that's the point Mal - many, many contractors don't understand the ins and outs of IR35, they haven't watched the constantly moving goalposts and that's what's so utterly irresponsible about just saying 'oh don't worry about IR35'

I don't actually disagree with you. But...

You want to be a career contractor, you learn how the job works to the same extent that you learn how to do what you sell to earn money; it's not two jobs, it's two sides of one job. If that's too hard for some reason then use an umbrella as the logical, safe solution - but don't then lecture me on being a freelance contractor. It's the same reason that less than 3% of PCG members use umbrellas; we're in a different market and a totally different business model.

If you know your job, IR35 isn't that much of a threat. But it is conditional on you knowing your job. Relying on a wing and a prayer is not a smart approach, and if you do it's not me being irresponsible.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Yes, but it doesn't stop me trying to educate people...


I manage my company, nobody else, and have done for years. The accountant is there as a backstop and only rarely an advisor, and I've taken the time and care to learn the rules for myself - like any director should.


Bet it isn't. Very few are, if you work with any degree of technical competence. But if it makes you happy...

IR35 is a done deal. We know the rules and how to accomodate them and what to do if it all goes pear shaped. People who spend their lives worrying about it or see it as their biggest challenge are doing it wrong. Life's too short

But that's the point Mal - many, many contractors don't understand the ins and outs of IR35, they haven't watched the constantly moving goalposts and that's what's so utterly irresponsible about just saying 'oh don't worry about IR35'

[formant]

Just to be pedantic - an umbrella company doesn't decide what to do with your money - HMR&C does. Where's the risk from a straight forward PAYE brolly?

Agreed.

[formant]

Bet it isn't. Very few are, if you work with any degree of technical competence. But if it makes you happy...

Nah, it is, but I shall not elaborate on this too much for now. I don't want to take this thread that far off-topic.
Clientco habitually uses contractors as a way of trialling future permies. They basically no longer have much of a permie route in without contracting first unless they're hiring low level administrative staff. Yeah, I have some freedoms, particularly regarding working time and work location, but other than that I'm very much treated like an employee.

And, as I said, good on you for the way you run your company. That's unfortunately not the norm. LTD is only the better way if you're going to actually get it right. Otherwise you can cause yourself and your finances quite a bit of harm.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Just to be pedantic - an umbrella company doesn't decide what to do with your money - HMR&C does. Where's the risk from a straight forward PAYE brolly?

[northernladuk]

Hah, no. Just think a lot of that thinking you're in charge just cause you're self-employed is a little bit delusional. Been there, done that.

There are good pro-LTD arguments (like the higher net earnings), but there are also slightly idealistic perceptions, like the 'being in charge'. Normally that just means you're paying accountants to be in charge and insurances to be liable. Hm.

Show me a company where the accountants aren't in charge

[malvolio]

Well if you're not worrying, good for you. If you're not paying to fix matters retrospectively, good for you. Looking around this forum, you seem to be in the minority.

Yes, but it doesn't stop me trying to educate people...

Running your own LTD isn't all that hard - but doing it with 100% confidence that you've got it all 100% right - that's a bit tougher. And as for 'letting someone else decide', well I'm sure you're not completely going against what your accountant deems right or wrong. It's a perception thing.

I manage my company, nobody else, and have done for years. The accountant is there as a backstop and only rarely an advisor, and I've taken the time and care to learn the rules for myself - like any director should.

I don't have an option currently anyway, my contract is well within IR35 and likely to go perm eventually, so I'll happily 'let someone else decide' if that means I'm safe from a later HMRC investigation.

Bet it isn't. Very few are, if you work with any degree of technical competence. But if it makes you happy...

IR35 is a done deal. We know the rules and how to accomodate them and what to do if it all goes pear shaped. People who spend their lives worrying about it or see it as their biggest challenge are doing it wrong. Life's too short

[formant]

Are you the same person as the Lithium guy we had recently?

Hah, no. Just think a lot of that thinking you're in charge just cause you're self-employed is a little bit delusional. Been there, done that.

There are good pro-LTD arguments (like the higher net earnings), but there are also slightly idealistic perceptions, like the 'being in charge'. Normally that just means you're paying accountants to be in charge and insurances to be liable. Hm.

[formant]

A lot more than letting someone else decide what to do with it.

Time and effort? Well yes, that must take me minutes every three months and am insured for representation costs... It's called "knowing your business".

Well if you're not worrying, good for you. If you're not paying to fix matters retrospectively, good for you. Looking around this forum, you seem to be in the minority.

Running your own LTD isn't all that hard - but doing it with 100% confidence that you've got it all 100% right - that's a bit tougher. And as for 'letting someone else decide', well I'm sure you're not completely going against what your accountant deems right or wrong. It's a perception thing.

I don't have an option currently anyway, my contract is well within IR35 and likely to go perm eventually, so I'll happily 'let someone else decide' if that means I'm safe from a later HMRC investigation.

[northernladuk]

Considering how much time and effort LTDers seem to be investing in IR35 worries and the likes (or even throwing money at solicitors to sort out matters retrospectively), I'm not sure how much more 'in control' of 'their' money they really are. *shrug*...

Are you the same person as the Lithium guy we had recently?

[malvolio]

Considering how much time and effort LTDers seem to be investing in IR35 worries and the likes (or even throwing money at solicitors to sort out matters retrospectively), I'm not sure how much more 'in control' of 'their' money they really are. *shrug*...

A lot more than letting someone else decide what to do with it.

Time and effort? Well yes, that must take me minutes every three months and am insured for representation costs... It's called "knowing your business".

[formant]

This is why you should just say 'No!' to brollies.

You arent in control of 'your' own money.

Considering how much time and effort LTDers seem to be investing in IR35 worries and the likes (or even throwing money at solicitors to sort out matters retrospectively), I'm not sure how much more 'in control' of 'their' money they really are. *shrug*...

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

This is why you should just say 'No!' to brollies.

You arent in control of 'your' own money.

Hi BB Yep but at least you know with a brolly you really do have zero chance of an IR35 investigation

[northernladuk]

And most of them do give useful, polite, factually correct advice, which is more than can be said for the rest of us.

Oiiii I protest... erm, actually, forget that...

[mudskipper]

There is no denying that the umbrellas, accountants and tax avoidance scheme providers post here in order to promote their businesses but so long as they do it within the forum rules I don't see that there is any problem with that.

Generally these people make useful contributions and it allows a robust discussion of the merits of the various trading structures which is a good thing.

And most of them do give useful, polite, factually correct advice, which is more than can be said for the rest of us.