Reply to: Limited Company as a Locum GP

[andrew12]

As the owner of the ltd company as a Locum gp we must have this by law and it is usually included in other insurances, so it is probably worth keeping it all, as the costs will not be greatly reduced.

[Taita]

Hi all, I took some advice from Qdos after trading through the ltd for a couple of months. The short of it is that my contract wasn't compliant and to make it so would have really stretched reality. Indeed, I couldn't really see a legitimate way around the 'Direction and Control' contract test. Ultimately, working as an SHO/Middle grade I still have to ask the bosses for advice on difficult cases and they have ultimate say. I just didn't want to take the risk of getting further down the line and then be hit for a big tax bill. I guess its different GPs, especially with the Direction and Control aspect.

Your contract wording may not comply but, by strict definition, you are a member of a recognised profession. As such, you are expected to use your personal judgement in your day to day work to a very appreciable extent. I hesitate to double guess you and the other posters here but I wonder what the medical profession's official line is on this.

Logically, I see a big difference between a GP (who as a patient I would assume to be adequately qualified to treat me/refer me without direct guidance from anybody else) and a junior hospital doctor who is clearly being supervised by registrars, consultants etc.

I respectfully opine that we (here) may have too subjective a view based on our own experience of 'standard' IT/Engineering contracts and how they are regarded by HMRC.

[Andrew@Wisteria]

Hi all, I took some advice from Qdos after trading through the ltd for a couple of months. The short of it is that my contract wasn't compliant and to make it so would have really stretched reality. Indeed, I couldn't really see a legitimate way around the 'Direction and Control' contract test. Ultimately, working as an SHO/Middle grade I still have to ask the bosses for advice on difficult cases and they have ultimate say. I just didn't want to take the risk of getting further down the line and then be hit for a big tax bill. I guess its different GPs, especially with the Direction and Control aspect.

Remember you can claim 5% administration expenses, as well as other expenses such as travel, pension, PI insurance etc.

[musketeer]

Are you sure that a locum SHO / Registrat / SpR / Senior Registrar / Staff Grade is a 'training role' just because the non-locum equivalent is? Locum is quite different, and I'm not sure where the training comes in. Having said that, Direction and Control looks pretty clear, but could an argument not be made that the contractor is outside of IR35 because of lack if Mututality of Obligation, particularly if doing the odd day here or there?

As far as the public sector guidance on tax / NIC is concerned, this doesn't seem to have filtered to local NHS Trusts yet.

Hi all, I took some advice from Qdos after trading through the ltd for a couple of months. The short of it is that my contract wasn't compliant and to make it so would have really stretched reality. Indeed, I couldn't really see a legitimate way around the 'Direction and Control' contract test. Ultimately, working as an SHO/Middle grade I still have to ask the bosses for advice on difficult cases and they have ultimate say. I just didn't want to take the risk of getting further down the line and then be hit for a big tax bill. I guess its different GPs, especially with the Direction and Control aspect.

[Old Greg]

If you are working in an NHS Hospital below the grade of Consultant then this is considered to be a training grade so control is demonstrated so inside IR35. If working as a Consultant in an NHS hospital then the Consultant is an Office Holder so effectively inside IR35 too. A locum standing in for a GP in local practice could be inside or outside IR35 depending on the circumstances. Beware too that as we have public sector money involved the NHS are starting to seek assurances that the correct levels of tax and NIC are being paid - see the Public Sector thread.
Hope this helps.

Are you sure that a locum SHO / Registrat / SpR / Senior Registrar / Staff Grade is a 'training role' just because the non-locum equivalent is? Locum is quite different, and I'm not sure where the training comes in. Having said that, Direction and Control looks pretty clear, but could an argument not be made that the contractor is outside of IR35 because of lack if Mututality of Obligation, particularly if doing the odd day here or there?

As far as the public sector guidance on tax / NIC is concerned, this doesn't seem to have filtered to local NHS Trusts yet.

[Taita]

There was a specific employment case covering a locum doctor - Bhadra v Ellam. HMRC view here: Particular occupations: doctors - agency doctors

That's your starter for an answer. You may also wish to consult the BMA as you are not a pioneer in this! I would have thought they have a template/checklist/recommended practices for locum work. Don't forget your personal professional/medical indemnity insurance. Practice managers vary and not all will cover all the obvious bases. It could be that you have to be individually named on a Practice policy to be covered. Good luck!

[Kate Cottrell]

Hello all,

I realise the last post on this forum was sometime ago, but thought I'd post anyway. Also this is my first post so be gentle. I'm a locum ED SHO / Middle grade at the moment having resigned from my anaesthetics training job in a different county. I'm currently covering maternity in the Emergency department leave and running everything through a ltd. I've not worked in this hospital before. zguy27, I was just wondering what you decided / found out about as running locum work through the ltd? Did you decide to go for it? I'm already set up but I'm about to get in touch with SJD accountancy for some advice regarding IR35.

Thanks,

If you are working in an NHS Hospital below the grade of Consultant then this is considered to be a training grade so control is demonstrated so inside IR35. If working as a Consultant in an NHS hospital then the Consultant is an Office Holder so effectively inside IR35 too. A locum standing in for a GP in local practice could be inside or outside IR35 depending on the circumstances. Beware too that as we have public sector money involved the NHS are starting to seek assurances that the correct levels of tax and NIC are being paid - see the Public Sector thread.
Hope this helps.

[musketeer]

Locum Emergency Department SHO / Middle Grade

Hello all,

I realise the last post on this forum was sometime ago, but thought I'd post anyway. Also this is my first post so be gentle. I'm a locum ED SHO / Middle grade at the moment having resigned from my anaesthetics training job in a different county. I'm currently covering maternity in the Emergency department leave and running everything through a ltd. I've not worked in this hospital before. zguy27, I was just wondering what you decided / found out about as running locum work through the ltd? Did you decide to go for it? I'm already set up but I'm about to get in touch with SJD accountancy for some advice regarding IR35.

Thanks,

[Clare@InTouch]

There was a specific employment case covering a locum doctor - Bhadra v Ellam. HMRC view here: Particular occupations: doctors - agency doctors

[Danielsjdaccountancy]

I have worked with locums and it really is no issue, control tends to be the area we look at for being Outside IR35.

VAT is the only tricky bit as there are separate rules for if you do and do not have direct patient contact.

HM Revenue & Customs

[Wanderer]

See if you can filch an example contract from someone else in your line of work.

^^^^^ Definitely do this. Make discrete enquiries and find out how the other locums operate.

Most of us are one man LTD companies and can give general advice about the structure of your LTD, but we know little about the line of business you are in. If most of the other locums are using LTD companies and work outside IR35 then you're probably good to go too.

Just keep clear of anyone offering any sort of "scheme" that purports to help you avoid tax using complex arrangements and be aware that these tax avoidance schemes often offer large referral fees which is why people may recommend them. Go for the tried and tested LTD company route with a £7488 salary and the rest as dividends or retained in the company to build your business.

Good luck!

[Contreras]

Do PCG ones have contracts relevant to the medical profession/seeing patients or will I kind of have to re-invent the wheel in changing a pre-existing contract that it may be easier to do it myself?

Word of advice - don't be tempted to DIY it with wording of contract clauses. Either get professional help and/or plagiarise someone else's work.

Also take care not to become so focused on IR35 that you ignore the (more important, imho) commercial aspects. Payment terms and notice periods, for a start.

The PCG template contracts are not domain specific. They come with accompanying guidance notes which explain the rationale to various clauses and possibly answer some of your questions.

The IR35 aspects are well covered in the main contract and you should not feel the need to tamper here (much) at all. There is a separate "Schedule" template where you detail the deliverables, rate, etc. - this is the document you will need to flesh out.

See if you can filch an example contract from someone else in your line of work.

[Old Greg]

And that's why you use the PCG standard ones. They don't need reviewing... Saves half your membership fee in one hit.

HTH

I would think about whether there is anything particular about the practice of medicine. If there are other locums working in this way that is good. But I would want to asleep a different bunch of people from us about this.

[zguy27]

Do PCG ones have contracts relevant to the medical profession/seeing patients or will I kind of have to re-invent the wheel in changing a pre-existing contract that it may be easier to do it myself?

Thanks

[malvolio]

You might want a professional to review.

And that's why you use the PCG standard ones. They don't need reviewing... Saves half your membership fee in one hit.

HTH