Limited Company as a Locum GP

[zguy27]

Hey Guys,

I realise that this website is mostly for IT contractors, but I've found it very helpful in researching about setting up my own limited company so I thought I would sign up and pick your brains...

I have just started work as a GP Locum (where I work for different practices/health organisations.) I have always wanted to set up a company and invest company profits back into the company for growth rather than paying 40-50+ tax before I get to invest any money. My accountant (and I) feel that providing my services through a limited company is the way to go. I will be risking the company profits in investments I make, so this is not merely just a tax avoidance issue - I am genuinely there to try and grow the company.

Anyway, I've been doing some reading and am a bit concerned about the IR35 issue. My accountant isn't too worried about this at all; but I like to be on the safe side.

About 50% of my work will come from about 3 different organisations and the remaining 50% of my work will come from a "long term locum" where I am going to work at a GP practice as their doctor for 4 set days a week for 6months. I need to make a contract that is "IR35" safe for this long term locum placement. (The other remaining 50% of the work is through agencies and the like and will be on a ad-hoc basis and I don't think this will be inside IR35)

I'm going to draw up a contract with this new practice I am going to work with and will try and make it IR35 safe (as it should be as I am not getting any perks of the job like employer contribution of pension, training days, professional fees, equipment etc...)

However what 2 names should the contract be between. Do I mention my own personal name in the contract at all or strictly keep it between the 2 companies?

In addition, I understand that if I get to take control and choose when and when not to work; this is better for me as it shows that I'm more likely to be outside of IR35; but how can I do this in practice. I can't just tell them one day when I can or cannot work (as they have to book in patients into my clinics etc..) Or does this clause normally mean that I dictate when and when not I can work? (ie I have already told them the 2 weeks I cannot work and they have not put me in for those weeks)

Thanks!

[malvolio]

Hey Guys,

I realise that this website is mostly for IT contractors, but I've found it very helpful in researching about setting up my own limited company so I thought I would sign up and pick your brains...

I have just started work as a GP Locum (where I work for different practices/health organisations.) I have always wanted to set up a company and invest company profits back into the company for growth rather than paying 40-50+ tax before I get to invest any money. My accountant (and I) feel that providing my services through a limited company is the way to go. I will be risking the company profits in investments I make, so this is not merely just a tax avoidance issue - I am genuinely there to try and grow the company.

Anyway, I've been doing some reading and am a bit concerned about the IR35 issue. My accountant isn't too worried about this at all; but I like to be on the safe side.

About 50% of my work will come from about 3 different organisations and the remaining 50% of my work will come from a "long term locum" where I am going to work at a GP practice as their doctor for 4 set days a week for 6months. I need to make a contract that is "IR35" safe for this long term locum placement. (The other remaining 50% of the work is through agencies and the like and will be on a ad-hoc basis and I don't think this will be inside IR35)

I'm going to draw up a contract with this new practice I am going to work with and will try and make it IR35 safe (as it should be as I am not getting any perks of the job like employer contribution of pension, training days, professional fees, equipment etc...)

However what 2 names should the contract be between. Do I mention my own personal name in the contract at all or strictly keep it between the 2 companies?

In addition, I understand that if I get to take control and choose when and when not to work; this is better for me as it shows that I'm more likely to be outside of IR35; but how can I do this in practice. I can't just tell them one day when I can or cannot work (as they have to book in patients into my clinics etc..) Or does this clause normally mean that I dictate when and when not I can work? (ie I have already told them the 2 weeks I cannot work and they have not put me in for those weeks)

Thanks!

The usual advice applies. Read the guide on here, download and study the Guide to Freelancing at www.pcg.org.uk and there's a decent guide to the financials on the website. That will get you started and cover the basics of IR35 to boot.

However, you are the first locum medic I've heard of (and I know of hundreds) that has actually thought about IR35 and how to work through a limited rather than as the confused semi-SE agency-supllied herd do. Can I suggest you actually join the PCG and talk to them about the particular issues your trade faces. Of the 21,000 members I think we have about three doctors: clearly someone somewhere is missing a trick... And, of course, you will have access to their IR35-friendly (and recently updated) contract templates...

[Old Greg]

The usual advice applies. Read the guide on here, download and study the Guide to Freelancing at www.pcg.org.uk and there's a decent guide to the financials on the website. That will get you started and cover the basics of IR35 to boot.

However, you are the first locum medic I've heard of (and I know of hundreds) that has actually thought about IR35 and how to work through a limited rather than as the confused semi-SE agency-supllied herd do. Can I suggest you actually join the PCG and talk to them about the particular issues your trade faces. Of the 21,000 members I think we have about three doctors: clearly someone somewhere is missing a trick... And, of course, you will have access to their IR35-friendly (and recently updated) contract templates...

I work with a lot if hospital consultants who do private work and ny understanding is that Ltd has been tried and has failed - presumably for IR35.

The question I would ask is how you differ from a salaried GP The only difference i can see is in mutuality of obligation. Is that enough?

Another thought, if your Ltd becomes a provider if medical services, are there regulatory considerations?

I know plenty of medics who work through Ltds for project work, but not for patient care delivery.

Do your own research. Maybe you'll crack it.

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

I'm pretty sure the Limited Company route is OK for locuming work. A quick google search will show that its fairly well established practice. I would have thought that most doctors would stand on very solid ground in terms of Direction and Control.

[Old Greg]

I'm pretty sure the Limited Company route is OK for locuming work. A quick google search will show that its fairly well established practice. I would have thought that most doctors would stand on very solid ground in terms of Direction and Control.

I stand corrected. Surprised as well.

[zguy27]

Thanks guys, I think I definately just need some model contracts and tweak them.

I'll differ from a salaried GP in a few ways:

1) They approached me for work and asked how many sessions I could offer them

2) I won't be getting any employee benefits (such as training days, indemnity fees, medical equipment, pension, holiday/sick entitlement)

3) No notice required to terminate the contract on their end (I would like to let them know in advance of when I want to stop as a courtesy, but I'm not sure if this will backfire)

4) I choose my holidays and when I don't work; even though I will be working a set 4 days per week. I can dictate my start finish times based around my other work commitments.

5) I will have no on call comitments or needing to participate in other work that salaried GP's/partners do (such as signing prescriptions, general practice paperwork -I will still need to do my own admin resulted from my own caseload) No need to go to practice meetings unless something being discussed there affects my patient care.

6) I will charge extra for additional patients I have to see in clinic or as home visits (something that salaried do not do)

7) I can work for other practices/health organisations as I wish (see point 4)

Can you think of any other clauses I can put to make it more IR35 safe?

The only thing I am not sure of is if I enter a clause stating that I will supply a substitute if I cannot make it - what happens if I can't? (I doubt in practice they will take me up on this anyway)

[BolshieBastard]

Hey Guys,

I realise that this website is mostly for IT contractors, but I've found it very helpful in researching about setting up my own limited company so I thought I would sign up and pick your brains...

I have just started work as a GP Locum (where I work for different practices/health organisations.) I have always wanted to set up a company and invest company profits back into the company for growth rather than paying 40-50+ tax before I get to invest any money. My accountant (and I) feel that providing my services through a limited company is the way to go. I will be risking the company profits in investments I make, so this is not merely just a tax avoidance issue - I am genuinely there to try and grow the company.

Anyway, I've been doing some reading and am a bit concerned about the IR35 issue. My accountant isn't too worried about this at all; but I like to be on the safe side.

About 50% of my work will come from about 3 different organisations and the remaining 50% of my work will come from a "long term locum" where I am going to work at a GP practice as their doctor for 4 set days a week for 6months. I need to make a contract that is "IR35" safe for this long term locum placement. (The other remaining 50% of the work is through agencies and the like and will be on a ad-hoc basis and I don't think this will be inside IR35)

I'm going to draw up a contract with this new practice I am going to work with and will try and make it IR35 safe (as it should be as I am not getting any perks of the job like employer contribution of pension, training days, professional fees, equipment etc...)

However what 2 names should the contract be between. Do I mention my own personal name in the contract at all or strictly keep it between the 2 companies?

In addition, I understand that if I get to take control and choose when and when not to work; this is better for me as it shows that I'm more likely to be outside of IR35; but how can I do this in practice. I can't just tell them one day when I can or cannot work (as they have to book in patients into my clinics etc..) Or does this clause normally mean that I dictate when and when not I can work? (ie I have already told them the 2 weeks I cannot work and they have not put me in for those weeks)

Thanks!

Bit too complicated for me but can I suggest you get your contract(s) reviewed professionally by someone like Bauer & Cottrell.

Only cost a couple of hundred quid and well worth it imo.

[Old Greg]

Thanks guys, I think I definately just need some model contracts and tweak them.

I'll differ from a salaried GP in a few ways:

1) They approached me for work and asked how many sessions I could offer them

2) I won't be getting any employee benefits (such as training days, indemnity fees, medical equipment, pension, holiday/sick entitlement)

3) No notice required to terminate the contract on their end (I would like to let them know in advance of when I want to stop as a courtesy, but I'm not sure if this will backfire)

4) I choose my holidays and when I don't work; even though I will be working a set 4 days per week. I can dictate my start finish times based around my other work commitments.

5) I will have no on call comitments or needing to participate in other work that salaried GP's/partners do (such as signing prescriptions, general practice paperwork -I will still need to do my own admin resulted from my own caseload) No need to go to practice meetings unless something being discussed there affects my patient care.

6) I will charge extra for additional patients I have to see in clinic or as home visits (something that salaried do not do)

7) I can work for other practices/health organisations as I wish (see point 4)

Can you think of any other clauses I can put to make it more IR35 safe?

The only thing I am not sure of is if I enter a clause stating that I will supply a substitute if I cannot make it - what happens if I can't? (I doubt in practice they will take me up on this anyway)

You might want a professional to review.

[malvolio]

You might want a professional to review.

And that's why you use the PCG standard ones. They don't need reviewing... Saves half your membership fee in one hit.

HTH

[zguy27]

Do PCG ones have contracts relevant to the medical profession/seeing patients or will I kind of have to re-invent the wheel in changing a pre-existing contract that it may be easier to do it myself?

Thanks