IR35 advice

[Jezza]

Sounds good. Just to be clear in this case with all the differences you mention it doesn't appear you are falling foul of IR35 which is the standard assumption when going back to an ex-employer but being contracted by MSP is not an indication. It is your contract and working practices, not who you are contracted in with. Don't let your gaurd down because of this.

Thanks i'll make sure I consider the other implications re working practices etc. Thanks to you and everyone else for their input!

[northernladuk]

Sorry for the delayed response - just had the interview so I know a bit more about the role. This is a temporary role which involves management of application development across multiple projects within a large financial services programme. Working hours will be longer than std permie hours (although I will look for "professional working day" to be specified in the contract or something along those lines) so there are differences there. The role is totally different that which I undertook as a permie and in a totally different area of IT that i have never worked in before. I have also negotiated some flexible working into the arrangement.

Re your comment about leaving as a permie and going back under contract, NLUK has already stated this is not an IR35 "red flag" issue, given that i will be contracted to a managed service provider rather than to my previous employers?

Should an offer be forthcoming, I'll ensure my contract is checked for IR35 compliance.

Sounds good. Just to be clear in this case with all the differences you mention it doesn't appear you are falling foul of IR35 which is the standard assumption when going back to an ex-employer but being contracted by MSP is not an indication. It is your contract and working practices, not who you are contracted in with. Don't let your gaurd down because of this.

[Jezza]

And who will you be reporting to? Will they be directing what you do? Will you be working the same hours as the permies? etc etc The other consideration is that, having left there as a permie and gone back under contract it would be a fair assumption that you were integrated into the workforce

Sorry for the delayed response - just had the interview so I know a bit more about the role. This is a temporary role which involves management of application development across multiple projects within a large financial services programme. Working hours will be longer than std permie hours (although I will look for "professional working day" to be specified in the contract or something along those lines) so there are differences there. The role is totally different that which I undertook as a permie and in a totally different area of IT that i have never worked in before. I have also negotiated some flexible working into the arrangement.

Re your comment about leaving as a permie and going back under contract, NLUK has already stated this is not an IR35 "red flag" issue, given that i will be contracted to a managed service provider rather than to my previous employers?

Should an offer be forthcoming, I'll ensure my contract is checked for IR35 compliance.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Thanks all for the informative responses.

I'm a PM and the project i would be working on (although different to the previous one I worked on as a permie) is part of the same programme. That said, it will be working with a different area of the business, with different teams/stakeholders to my permie role.

And who will you be reporting to? Will they be directing what you do? Will you be working the same hours as the permies? etc etc The other consideration is that, having left there as a permie and gone back under contract it would be a fair assumption that you were integrated into the workforce

[northernladuk]

My concern was that stepping into this situation may represent an "IR35 red flag" as you put it - should have worded my query a little more carefully. I appreciate there are many other things that need to be considered, but this gives me confidence that the scenario alone should not stop me from following up on this opportunity.

Indeed it doesn't so good luck. Get your contract reviewed by QDOS who do it free if you get their PI/PL insurance as well.

[Jezza]

Just because it is all these things it does not mean your operating outside IR35. It just means you have dodged an IR35 red flag. The next step is to make sure everything else you do points you to being outside.

My concern was that stepping into this situation may represent an "IR35 red flag" as you put it - should have worded my query a little more carefully. I appreciate there are many other things that need to be considered, but this gives me confidence that the scenario alone should not stop me from following up on this opportunity.

[malvolio]

Hi all,

I've been reading the site's resources on IR35 but couldn't find the answer to my query.

I've been working with a big 4 bank for 10yrs as a permie (North West based) and have recently left to start contracting. I have received an enquiry for a contract role with a Global IT Services provider. This will entail working back in the same bank that I've just left, albeit contracted to the IT Services company, based down in London, with a different project.

Is this an issue from an IR35 perspective? Any advice appreciated.

Cheers
Jez

As others have said, as long as the role is significantly different and the contract is outside IR35 and the client will abide by it you should be able to defend your position.

Go to www.pcg.org.uk and add their Guide to Freelancing to the reading list; it was updated recetnly to pick up most of the relevant recent IR35 cases.

[northernladuk]

There is no right answers with IR35. It is a complicated and very wooly piece of legislation designed to try and stop people being 'hidden permies' but enjoying the tax breaks of a proper company.

You have to understand it, not trawl it for answers. In this case I don't think you have. The other posters have given you the piece of information you are after but you need to get to grips with IR35 better. It covers your contact and your working practices. You can fail it for being a new client let alone your old one even if it is in a different dept, site etc. Just because it is all these things it does not mean your operating outside IR35. It just means you have dodged an IR35 red flag. The next step is to make sure everything else you do points you to being outside.

You could have a contract in different deptarment, different project, different location but if you walk in first morning and go ask the HR lady where do you do your expenses and can you have an account for the online career review website you are just as screwed.

[Jezza]

As Clare said it is important to consider your working practises carefully rather than rely on the contents of a contract. Is the project you will be working on similar to your perm job or totally different? Is it actually a project role or are there permies doing the same job that you will be doing? Will the work that you do be dictated by a line manager etc etc

Thanks all for the informative responses.

I'm a PM and the project i would be working on (although different to the previous one I worked on as a permie) is part of the same programme. That said, it will be working with a different area of the business, with different teams/stakeholders to my permie role.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

As Clare said it is important to consider your working practises carefully rather than rely on the contents of a contract. Is the project you will be working on similar to your perm job or totally different? Is it actually a project role or are there permies doing the same job that you will be doing? Will the work that you do be dictated by a line manager etc etc

[Jeremiah@RHJAccountants]

I would agree making sure your contract is reviewed to make sure you are outside of IR35 is vital. Being inside IR35 makes a big difference.

Make sure it is a specalist i am sure many on here can reccommend some one for you.

My firm Smith Craven does reviews contracts for IR35 and we send them to a specalist who can adivise on changes that may need to be made to the contract.

[Clare@InTouch]

As long as the new contract is totally different to your old permie job then that old relationship shouldn't have any bearing on your current status at all. Just keep any evidence necessary to show these differences (written notes, job specs etc).

Your current status will then depend on the relationship between you and your client - I presume from what you've said that your end client is a subcontractor of your old employer? So it's you invoicing the agent who invoice the subcontractor who invoice the old employer? In which case you should be looking at the relationship you have with the subcontractor, ignoring any agency involved. Do you have control? Can you send a substitute? If so, you have good basis for arguing you're outside of IR35. Get your contract and working conditions reviewed by a specialist though.

[Jezza]

Hi all,

I've been reading the site's resources on IR35 but couldn't find the answer to my query.

I've been working with a big 4 bank for 10yrs as a permie (North West based) and have recently left to start contracting. I have received an enquiry for a contract role with a Global IT Services provider. This will entail working back in the same bank that I've just left, albeit contracted to the IT Services company, based down in London, with a different project.

Is this an issue from an IR35 perspective? Any advice appreciated.

Cheers
Jez