Reply to: 183 days rule in Belgium

[BlasterBates]

LIMOSA is utterly irrelevant to determining the tax regime under which a person will operate. Registering under LIMOSA doe not cause you to receive a Belgian tax return and does not affetc your tax status under the 183 day rule.

Fwiw the Double Taxation Treaty between Belgium and the Uk is avalable in .pdf form here, though it is with great trepidation with which I present it to someone who shows so little understanding of what they've read. Kindly study the paragraph at 15.2 :



I really cannot be bothered with this, it's long past your bedtime and I've had enough.

Boo2

This is what the DTA states:

Income derived by a resident of a Contractor State in respect of professional services or other activities of an independent character shall be taxable only in that State unless he has a fixed base regularly available to him in the other Contracting state for the purpose of performing his activities.

If you work for 3 months in Belgium for 3 months they will deem you to have a fixed base for the duration of the contract. Where does it stipulate 183 days?

The DTA is pretty much identical with respect to all European countries, and I can ensure you that contractors working in Germany for less than 183 days have had to face criminal investigations, because the German tax authorities deemed them to have a fixed base. If you try this on in Belgium, and the stipulation in the LIMOSA regulations are pretty clear on this, you'll no doubt face similar problems, if they were to find out.

On the whole in Europe, tax authorities take a very dim view of contractors working through foreign intermedaries and will not interpret woolly statements in the contractor's favour.

[stek]

The advice I gave is the exact advice I followed from a Belgian accountant and the 183 day rule has been very public knowledge for a decade or more.

FTFY, and the accountant is?

[Boo]

...Limosa...

LIMOSA is utterly irrelevant to determining the tax regime under which a person will operate. Registering under LIMOSA doe not cause you to receive a Belgian tax return and does not affetc your tax status under the 183 day rule.

Fwiw the Double Taxation Treaty between Belgium and the Uk is avalable in .pdf form here, though it is with great trepidation with which I present it to someone who shows so little understanding of what they've read. Kindly study the paragraph at 15.2 :

(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (1) of this Article, remuneration derived
by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment exercised in the other
Contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State if:
(a) the recipient is present in the other State for a period or periods not exceeding in
the aggregate 183 days within any period of 12 months; and
(b) the remuneration is paid by, or on behalf of, an employer who is not a resident of
the other State

I really cannot be bothered with this, it's long past your bedtime and I've had enough.

Boo2

[BlasterBates]

From the Limosa website

Self-employed business people
Self-employed business people are exempt from the declaration if they do not stay in Belgium for more than 5 days per month for their activities.

Company self-employed directors and mandataries [sic] are also exempt if they take part in meetings of the Board of Directors and company general meetings. They, too, may not stay in Belgium for more than 5 days per month.

Here are the conditions

https://www.socialsecurity.be/foreig...nstructs_E.pdf


If you don't register you're sailing close to the wind. There is no 183 day exemption! The regulations stipulate that any self-employed person carrying out a temporary activity has to register.

[Boo]

why did I get charged tax for working short contracts in several countries, with a 183 day rule.

I assume it's because you listened to the agency who make a cut/kickback from the umbrella who stitched you for 35% of your earnings without doing a thing for you ? No ? Well I give up then, maybe you're just foolish.

I would strongly advise to ignore your advice, as it may cause serious problems.

I've been working cross border in several European countries for 10 years, and I can assure you that you are completely mistaken, with your view point.

The advice I gave is the exact advice I followed from a Belgium accountant and the 183 day rule has been very public knowledge for a decade or more.

You've been misled by your own stupidity in listening to people who have an interest in misrepresenting the situation to you and now cannot face that fact.

Boo

[BlasterBates]

You are making this up :

Tax is paid where you are tax resident. Working in a country may (very likely) make you tax resident there but the country in which you are normally tax resident will (usually) also tax you on the same earnings. The joint taxation agreements (where they exist) make provision for the country of your normal tax residence to rebate you in respect of taxes paid to foreign countries.

As I said to the OP : if you work and are tax resident in Belgium then you must pay Belgian taxes on your worldwide income. Fortunately the JTA will allow you to offset any UK taxes you pay on your income from UK Ltd Companies, including your own. However this does still amount to paying Belgian levels of tax on UK earnings because the BTA will snaffle the all the value between what was paid in the UK and what is due under Belgian law.

BlasterBates, you are ignorant and wrong and you should be more careful about misleading people on issues which could be very important to them.


Boo2

You seem to be talking complete and utter garbage to me. You don't have to seem any understanding of international tax law. For the moment it looks like you got away with your attempted tax evasion, hopefully it will stay that way.

and by the way it is complete nonsense to suggest the Belgian authorities take the difference between the tax you paid and their tax rates. There are double taxation agreements that preclude that, as Brussel Slumdog says. He's perfectly correct.

And if you 're so right why did I get charged tax for working short contracts in several countries, with a 183 day rule, and why have I never paid a top-up tax, altjough I've been working and paying tax in several European countries in one year. That is precisely because of the DTA. You only pay a top-up tax where there ISN'T a double taxation treaty. That's why it is called a DOUBLE taxation treaty, so that you don't pay tax twice.

I would strongly advise to ignore your advice, as it may cause serious problems.

I've been working cross border in several European countries for 10 years, and I can assure you that you are completely mistaken, with your view point.

[Boo]

There are double taxation agreements with all other European countries, the tax is paid where you do the work.

You are making this up :

Tax is paid where you are tax resident. Working in a country may (very likely) make you tax resident there but the country in which you are normally tax resident will (usually) also tax you on the same earnings. The joint taxation agreements (where they exist) make provision for the country of your normal tax residence to rebate you in respect of taxes paid to foreign countries.

As I said to the OP : if you work and are tax resident in Belgium then you must pay Belgian taxes on your worldwide income. Fortunately the JTA will allow you to offset any UK taxes you pay on your income from UK Ltd Companies, including your own. However this does still amount to paying Belgian levels of tax on UK earnings because the BTA will snaffle the all the value between what was paid in the UK and what is due under Belgian law.

BlasterBates, you are ignorant and wrong and you should be more careful about misleading people on issues which could be very important to them.


Boo2

[Boo]

When you accept a 6 month IT contract in Belgium and the work is done there, you are setting up a business there, plain and simple.

That is utter c0ck and completely incorrect.

I have worked in Belgium and took advice from a Belgian accountant who said that it was perfectly permissable to work under the 183 day rule there as an employee of my UK Ltd Co. and gave me the details of how the 183 days is counted in Belgium.

Your reply is in total ignorance of the EU regulations governing the placement of workers in other EU countries and the 183 day rule does apply in Germany and the Netherlands as well.

One sometimes hears similar rubbish spouted by agents and people purveying the noxious ware of umbrella companies, you wouldn't be one such representative would you by any chance, BlasterBates ?

Boo2

[BlasterBates]

Well what you are doing is tax evasion in Belgium : if you are resident in Belgium then you must pay Belgian tax on your world-wide income.

Boo

There are double taxation agreements with all other European countries, the tax is paid where you do the work. It would be declared in Belgium but there would be no tax to pay on it. Brussels Slumdog didn´t say he didn´t pay tax he said that he paid less tax than he would in the UK.

[BlasterBates]

Not for 183 days, it's not.

Boo

The 183 day rule doesn´t apply to businesses. Obviously short visits they´re not going to bother. If you go to Belgium open a plumbing business, and leave after 6 months the Belgian authorities would still expect VAT and tax, from your business. When you accept a 6 month IT contract in Belgium and the work is done there, you are setting up a business there, plain and simple. No difference between setting up a plumbing business, fixing everyine´s drains or going round fixing their IT systems. Of course he could argue that he´s an employee of a Luxembourg company; however on the whole tax authorities see through these forms of arrangements, i.e. you´re not really an employee, you´re doing business on your own account; however the tax authorities may see this as an artificial arrangement and hold you personally liable.

There are plenty of examples of contractors trying this, certainly in Germany and the Netherlands and getting done for tax evasion, thinking they could use the 183 day rule, which they also have. In Switzerland the agency would force you to pay local tax even for a short term contract. I wouldn´t see that Belgium is any different. I did a 3 month contract in Luxembourg and paid tax there, even though I hadn´t been there 183 days.

I would suggest amuser takes advice in Belgium to make sure he doesn´t fall foul of the authorities. In the end you don´t really save anything by not doing that.

[Boo]

Generally if you're working in any country they'll expect tax. The 183 day rule doesn't mean you won't be taxed on work you do in that country. The 183 day rule is simply the point they will tax you on world-wide income and expect you to pay social security.

No it's not : the 183 day rule is the length of time a company from a different EU country may send an employee to work in Belgium without that employee being liable for Belgian tax. In the OP's case s/he will be eligible under the 183 day rule (for 183 days ) because the employing company is registered in Luxembourg.

As to what happens after the 183 days I am not completely certain but in logic, provided the new employer is Belgian and it is a bona-fide change of employment, then I don't see why the first 6 months shouldn't remain under the 183 day rule.
However, if the Belgian Tax Authorities knew that your client remained the same then they might be tempted to look through both employing companies and treat all work as coming under employment by the end client. What Belgian law says about this I don't know, but if the BTA aren't made aware of who the end client is (just the Luxembourg company and Belgian replacement) then they will not be in a position to complain...

Up to you but if the tax authorities did come sniffing round regardless where your primary residence is they may still expect you to pay tax. This would then be dealt with as tax evasion.

Not for 183 days, it's not.

Boo

[Boo]

I am a Belgian tax resident and have zero Belgian income. All my contracts are outside Belgium.
I pay less tax than if I were a UK resident with zero UK revenue and all my contracts outside the UK

Well what you are doing is tax evasion in Belgium : if you are resident in Belgium then you must pay Belgian tax on your world-wide income.

Boo

[Brussels Slumdog]

What about my human rights

Except he can't get home

They cannot deport terrorists because of the human rights act and I cannot deport myself

[northernladuk]

I am a Belgian tax resident and have zero Belgian income. All my contracts are outside Belgium.
I pay less tax than if I were a UK resident with zero UK revenue and all my contracts outside the UK

Except he can't get home

[Brussels Slumdog]

Tax resident in Belgium

I am a Belgian tax resident and have zero Belgian income. All my contracts are outside Belgium.
I pay less tax than if I were a UK resident with zero UK revenue and all my contracts outside the UK