Reply to: Contract offer retracted, after signing contract. No notice or payments provided!

[krytonsheep]

Above all, stand your ground firmly. Respect your own legal rights, and do not accept dishonesty from agencies

As a contractor you have to be flexible. I would never suggest to anyone to claim money for work they haven't done, regardless of contracts etc. Contractors get paid more because they have this risk factor. Take all the risks out of contracting and we all end up on permie wages.

I always believe you should prepare yourself (like a Samurai) to be terminated at any minute, including before the contract starts. If it happens, then just move on.

That's not a victory. You have just proved that we are all disguised employees and should be taxed as such.

This didn't go to court, so doesn't really prove anything.

[SueEllen]

I have PCG+ insurance should the agency go belly up

That's irrelevant to whether you are opted in or not.

If the agency goes bust regardless of whether you are opted-in or out you will have to use that insurance.

and I know how to contact Business Debt Collection & Recovery Solicitors - The Thomas Higgins Partnership if they want to play funny devils.

You may still have to do that if you are opted-in and they decide not to pay up.

All opting in means is that you have the another law on your side and the people who are suppose to regulate it, if the agency try and play silly buggers.

[Notascooby]

I am pleased to say that I have reached a settlement with the agency (cheque now clearing). It had taken all these months and a solicitors and debt collection lawyers. Nearly had to go to court.

I can say I received about a couple of weeks of pay (however, a significant portion of it was paid to lowyers).

My victory is one for all and every contractor in the industry. Yes, even for the eternal pessimists. I would like all who read these words to learn from my victory and from my mistakes also.

Lessons learned from past mistakes:
- Insist on opting IN rather than out of Conduct Regulations 2003. No matter what anybody says. These regulations protect you against dishonest agencies!!!
- Buy legal protection insurance, that specifically covers dishonoured contracts, non-payments by agencies etc. Not just IR35 compliance!!!
- If/when you contract is terminated without a valid notice as per cotract, make sure to actually turn up for work! I repeat, turn up for work! You will surely be sent back home, but then they will be forced to pay you until the proper notice is served!

Above all, stand your ground firmly. Respect your own legal rights, and do not accept dishonesty from agencies. No matter what anybody tells you, the only worthwhile advice is from qualified legal professionals.

Well done on your victory, I just hope you sent as much effort securing your next contract.

Just be aware that in some places, IT recruitment is a small world and word soon spreads.

[cojak]

I have PCG+ insurance should the agency go belly up and I know how to contact Business Debt Collection & Recovery Solicitors - The Thomas Higgins Partnership if they want to play funny devils.

[Wanderer]

Because I'm a business and prepared to take the risk?

Each to their own of course, but I don't see that signing away my legal protections is good business practice. I think Roger Sinclair from Egos puts it quite succinctly when he says:

I see it as clearly being in the Contractor's commercial interests to be within the scope of the regulations, and not to opt out. This, to my mind, is a significant commercial issue

[Wanderer]

That's not a victiory. You have just proved that we are all disguised employees and should be taxed as such.

So in your mind, that settles the argument about what notice periods mean. ie, if you have a notice period then you're IR35 caught? I don't think that this case proves anything of the sort.

HMRC are the ones who attempt to prove that people are "disguised employees" (and mostly fail according to the PCG) and this judgement doesn't change that. I'm sure there have been a load of IR35 status disputes where people have notice periods and MOO clauses in their contracts but that hasn't made them disguised employees.

What this case proves is that if a contract has a notice period to the consultant company then the consultant company is entitled to be paid for the notice period regardless of if there is any work for the consultant during that time. Likewise, if the consultant company failed to provide services during the notice period, the client could claim damages.

[blinko]

Well done for standing your ground, agencies are notouriously sinister, I worked for one for 4 years !!

the only thing they listen to is the FD

OR

Legal action

Other than that you will be fobbed off. We had a case, our contracts were awful and bigger companies would take the total piss. In the end a very big contractor took about 5 employees from us.

We took them to court and lost. In the meantime we held onto there pay unless they signed new contracts, they didn't sign. Took us to court and won.

So we paid out alot, lost the employees....welcome to the world of business. Where the only person thats looking out for you is.....YOU !!!

[cojak]

Why, when all the advice I can see on this site points towards opting in?

Because I'm a business and prepared to take the risk?

[craig1]

Because you'll get a worse contract from the agency, and the "protections" you get by opting-in don't actually work 99% of the time?

I've never opted out and never had a poorer contract because of being opted in. The two times that agencies have tried, I've stood my ground and they backed down rather than lose a candidate with an offered position. I'd rather walk than be opted out, just out of sheer principle.

[SueEllen]

Because you'll get a worse contract from the agency, and the "protections" you get by opting-in don't actually work 99% of the time?

You won' t necessarily get a worse contract but the type of agencies that don't chase you to opt-out know the client always uses agencies.

[malvolio]

Why, when all the advice I can see on this site points towards opting in?

Because you'll get a worse contract from the agency, and the "protections" you get by opting-in don't actually work 99% of the time?

[BolshieBastard]

And I'll still opt-out. Thanks all the same...

Why, when all the advice I can see on this site points towards opting in?

[stek]

A cheque? Yeah right!!

I am catching the faint whiff of bullshït here....

[psychocandy]

I am pleased to say that I have reached a settlement with the agency (cheque now clearing). It had taken all these months and a solicitors and debt collection lawyers. Nearly had to go to court.

I can say I received about a couple of weeks of pay (however, a significant portion of it was paid to lowyers).

My victory is one for all and every contractor in the industry. Yes, even for the eternal pessimists. I would like all who read these words to learn from my victory and from my mistakes also.

Lessons learned from past mistakes:
- Insist on opting IN rather than out of Conduct Regulations 2003. No matter what anybody says. These regulations protect you against dishonest agencies!!!
- Buy legal protection insurance, that specifically covers dishonoured contracts, non-payments by agencies etc. Not just IR35 compliance!!!
- If/when you contract is terminated without a valid notice as per cotract, make sure to actually turn up for work! I repeat, turn up for work! You will surely be sent back home, but then they will be forced to pay you until the proper notice is served!

Above all, stand your ground firmly. Respect your own legal rights, and do not accept dishonesty from agencies. No matter what anybody tells you, the only worthwhile advice is from qualified legal professionals.

So you did turn up on the door then?

[craig1]

Not really wanting to dig in further but please do the following:

1. Make a conservative guess at how many hours you've put into this. Include your time with lawyers (inc prep work), haggling, negotiating, court time, time on this forum (and others), etc.

2. Calculate your expected hourly working rate (the contract in question would be ideal for this calc)

3. Multiply them together.

If the figure you get from the above is under your net settlement (after lawyer's fees, etc.) then you're probably delusional about 1.

If the figure you get from the above is more than your net settlement then you've just wasted your time, money, credibility and most probably health.