Reply to: Client terminating without notice

[Big Bird]

Agent got back to me with the reason for no notice period;



So I read that as 'Client had a clause enabling them to terminate without notice'. Ah well.

'Have the right to terminate' is not the same as 'Have the right to terminate without notice' so theoretically you have a case. Of course the original intent of this clause was 'Have the right to terminate without notice' so as to protect the client but it was not written as such. You can try to point this out to the agency and you may get something. But then of course the agency will smarten up and change the clause for all future contracts.

[malvolio]

my point exactly.

I operate my company on a commercial basis not on the basis I am a one man band trying to dodge IR35.

One last time. All I'm saying is that you may have a notice period in your contract but, as the OP has demonstrated, it's not the clause the agency and the client will use to terminate the contract. So in effect, notice periods for contractors have zero value if the client doesn't want to pay you any more.

But as you say, I know nothing.

[prozak]

Lectures from someone who suggests a real business would silently ditch ten grand worth of notice period because that's what a 'real business' would do, will be treated with the contempt they deserve.

my point exactly.

I operate my company on a commercial basis not on the basis I am a one man band trying to dodge IR35.

[sbakoola]

I'm sure if the reverse were true and you just decided to walk out without giving any notice just prior to a big delivery then there would be action taken against your limited company so I say pursue it but don't spend 1000s.

Through the ages on this forum I've seen people in the same situation, what would work best is a debt collection agency, dunno who to direct it to the IB or the agency, or an initial legal letter.

[centurian]

That's harsh. I got canned by a bank recently but got a month notice. Things are grim. During my notice period 9 more contractors got binned. The day I left, 6 more.

I think thats because there is an incorrect understanding among some ClientCo's that you actually have a paid notice period.

But the strict letter of most of these contracts means that they don't have to pay you.

So it depends how clued up and hard ClientCo / agency want to play it.

[cojak]

No bickering on Professional forums please, or all 3 of you will be sin-binned for a day to cool down.

[Jubber]

Agent got back to me with the reason for no notice period;



So I read that as 'Client had a clause enabling them to terminate without notice'. Ah well.

That's harsh. I got canned by a bank recently but got a month notice. Things are grim. During my notice period 9 more contractors got binned. The day I left, 6 more.

[Wanderer]

Agent got back to me with the reason for no notice period;

The contract is being terminated under the clause “This does not affect the right to terminate this contract if the principal’s customer <(Client)> terminates the contract between customer and principal”

So I read that as 'Client had a clause enabling them to terminate without notice'. Ah well.

Hmm, I don't see anything that says "without notice". It just says the right to terminate. I guess it could be read that way.

Chin up and move on, no doubt you will end up with an even better contract and look back on this one and laugh one day.

[TestMangler]

There aren't that many losses to work with, but certainly in two of them the presence of a payable notice period was taken into account in determining the deemed contract.



Proves nothing. The two events are not mutually exclusive. IR35 is judged on a per contract basis



Yeah right. I know nothing. There speaks an expert.

One last attempt then I'll leave and Prozac to your toys. Mutuality if one of the two key planks of proving or disproving employement relationships (and before you jump, RoS is largely ignored these days). Being paid under any variation of a theme simply for being there or having an active contract with no work to be done demonstrates a level of Mutuality that is above the minimum requirement and is a strong indicator tworads there being an employement relationship. Hence it is a very bad IR35 indicator. If you want to do the research there are 30-odd cases where that has been laid down.

Now go away, I've lost intrest.

I know all about 'pointers to IR35' as you put it, because I went through a 2 1/2 year investigation that resulted in a 'case dropped' letter from HMRC. That's what I'm basing my opinions on along with two very good friends that went through the same thing. Lectures from someone who suggests a real business would silently ditch ten grand worth of notice period because that's what a 'real business' would do, will be treated with the contempt they deserve.

Now, you go away and formulate another theory without a basis.

[malvolio]

So, can you actually name a contractor who has been caught under IR35 for expecting a notice period in a contract to be honoured ?

There aren't that many losses to work with, but certainly in two of them the presence of a payable notice period was taken into account in determining the deemed contract.

I can certainly name one who has been paid for 30 days for not working during a notice period and has also been investigated for IR35 and found to be out.

Proves nothing. The two events are not mutually exclusive. IR35 is judged on a per contract basis

It would probably be more useful if your opinions weren't based on an obvious lack of knowledge of the subject. You spout that kind of crap on an almost daily basis.

Yeah right. I know nothing. There speaks an expert.

One last attempt then I'll leave and Prozac to your toys. Mutuality if one of the two key planks of proving or disproving employement relationships (and before you jump, RoS is largely ignored these days). Being paid under any variation of a theme simply for being there or having an active contract with no work to be done demonstrates a level of Mutuality that is above the minimum requirement and is a strong indicator tworads there being an employement relationship. Hence it is a very bad IR35 indicator. If you want to do the research there are 30-odd cases where that has been laid down.

Now go away, I've lost intrest.

[centurian]

Which IB?

Incase its where I am . I know there was a large contractor review started a month or so back.

P.M. me if you prefer.

WHS. Please PM me client


What seems odd - is that IB believe they have no contract with pimp Did your notification come from the HR/supplier services department, or the manager of the team you are working with.

[TestMangler]

I don't know what you''re on but I don't want any, thanks.

I've worked Big5 several times, at a senior level. I don't need lectures on resource management, contractual termination, novation or binning unnecessary workers for a host of reasons.

Sadly, we're talking about freelance contractors and IR35 indicators. I've no idea what you're on about and nor, I strongly suspect, do you.

So, can you actually name a contractor who has been caught under IR35 for expecting a notice period in a contract to be honoured ?

I can certainly name one who has been paid for 30 days for not working during a notice period and has also been investigated for IR35 and found to be out.

It would probably be more useful if your opinions weren't based on an obvious lack of knowledge of the subject. You spout that kind of crap on an almost daily basis.

[amoeba]

Agent got back to me with the reason for no notice period;

The contract is being terminated under the clause “This does not affect the right to terminate this contract if the principal’s customer <(Client)> terminates the contract between customer and principal”

So I read that as 'Client had a clause enabling them to terminate without notice'. Ah well.

[prozak]

I don't know what you''re on but I don't want any, thanks.

I've worked Big5 several times, at a senior level. I don't need lectures on resource management, contractual termination, novation or binning unnecessary workers for a host of reasons.

Sadly, we're talking about freelance contractors and IR35 indicators. I've no idea what you're on about and nor, I strongly suspect, do you.

Right. So after trying to belittle someone you have no stomach for the discussion?

Hey, but at least you got another ego boost comment in there for yourself!

[malvolio]

right.

so your contracts make you turn up to work every day?

oh i see. .... you might want to check your own contracts.

resource gets committed to a client. if they cancel a project a consulting company needs to reallocate that resource. Are you telling me if one of the big5 mobilise 50 bodies to a company that then cancels the contract there wont be some compensation?
I think you need to rethink what being a consulting firm is about... or have you never substituted a resource? oh dear...

I don't know what you''re on but I don't want any, thanks.

I've worked Big5 several times, at a senior level. I don't need lectures on resource management, contractual termination, novation or binning unnecessary workers for a host of reasons.

Sadly, we're talking about freelance contractors and IR35 indicators. I've no idea what you're on about and nor, I strongly suspect, do you.