Reply to: Meals - do you claim them?

[psychocandy]

I thought your argument was that you had no choice, not that you were different to the permies. If you just jump from argument to argument it looks like you made up your mind and are just trying to find approval.

Why don't you phone HMRC helpline and ask?

Originally, I had planned not to claim but following advice from my new accountants - Nixon Williams I can see the argument. However, I can see how its a bit of a grey area though.

Interesting comment from Puma though.

Thing is if I claim and then HMRC say no, what happens? I just have to pay it back (i.e. pay CT on it?) Nothing lost.

[northernladuk]

You would seriously hope HMRC have got better things to do that challenge £5 a day for a meal which they themselves allowed.... but we are talking about HMRC here so that assumption is nigh on worthless

[d000hg]

But then they cant claim for driving to work either can they?

I thought your argument was that you had no choice, not that you were different to the permies. If you just jump from argument to argument it looks like you made up your mind and are just trying to find approval.

Why don't you phone HMRC helpline and ask?

[THEPUMA]

No HMR&C can't tell you what to eat but they can tell you that your claims for meals are not reasonable and therefore they won't allow them

Lisa, do you have any experience of HMRC making such a challenge? Because I and all the other accountants here seem to unanimously agree that such subsistence can be claimed. I can confirm that in my 16 year accounting career I have never come across such a challenge. Presumably, the other accountants wouldn't be recommending that clients claim meals if they had failed to defend such a challenge and Bob Jones (ex-HMRC Inspector specialising in this area) has told us several times that HMRC's policy is to allow such claims.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

True. But can HMRC insist I do this?

For instance, if I'm home I can cook myself a hot meal. If Im away at client all day I dont have that option. Its buy something or take sarnies.

A lot of a grey area here mind...

No HMR&C can't tell you what to eat but they can tell you that your claims for meals are not reasonable and therefore they won't allow them

[SueEllen]

But then they cant claim for driving to work either can they?

The argument you are forgetting which HMRC use is that every human has to eat to live.

And permies can claim transport costs to different sites as long as it's not where they are permanently based.

[SueEllen]

But then surely using the clients kitchen facilities is acting like a permie?

It entirely depends on the client's set up -

1. Some don't have kitchen facilities
2. Some don't care at all who uses them but treat you different in regards to parking, canteen prices etc.
3. Some place contractors in a separate room so the only people using those kitchen facilities are contractors. And equipment in offices needs to be electrically checked those kitchens don't tend to have sandwich toasters and coffee machines as the contractors don't think they will be around long enough.

[psychocandy]

Why don't you ask the permies. I doubt they all feel forced to buy food.

But then they cant claim for driving to work either can they?

[psychocandy]

Absolutely. If you have no option other than to purchase food at the client site then that's a little different - bit like staying in a B & B, you have no option but to go out and eat and therefore the cost can reasonably claimed as an expense.

But then surely using the clients kitchen facilities is acting like a permie?

[psychocandy]

Why? At the end of the day you have the option to take sandwiches to work

True. But can HMRC insist I do this?

For instance, if I'm home I can cook myself a hot meal. If Im away at client all day I dont have that option. Its buy something or take sarnies.

A lot of a grey area here mind...

[SueEllen]

Either way unless your going back home to eat then its costing you more than it would surely?

Depends what you eat.

There are lots of fussy people around who like to know the amount of salt, fat etc in their food, or don't eat certain things. Therefore it's cheaper and easier for them to bring their own food.

Also lots of offices are near supermarkets and have kitchen facilities including fridges.

[d000hg]

Either way unless your going back home to eat then its costing you more than it would surely?

Why don't you ask the permies. I doubt they all feel forced to buy food.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

The additional cost comes down to where you are.

If you are in a middle of an industrial estate where there aren't kitchen facilities, and you cannot bring food from home then it would be fair to claim for it as the limited catering facilities do over charge for their food.

Absolutely. If you have no option other than to purchase food at the client site then that's a little different - bit like staying in a B & B, you have no option but to go out and eat and therefore the cost can reasonably claimed as an expense.

[Scrag Meister]

Where is the "Not any more" option.

I did when I was commuting from Devon to London and lodging in London weekdays.

Since the 2 year rule kicked in and I have now bought a place in London, even having moved contracts twice within London, I haven't claimed any since 2009.

[Clare@InTouch]

But if you are not at home you will not need to buy food for your lunch and will buy out instead so where is the additional cost?

If I'm at home I can have a can of beans and a bread roll. If I'm on a client site and the only option is the canteen then the extra cost is the value of the sarnie I've had to buy. Potentially reduced by the 35p I've saved by not eating a can of beans.

There would be no additional cost if HMRC allowed you to claim the proportionate cost of your weekly shopping, but they specifically don't.

Example 2
An employee who has to make a business journey takes a packed lunch that he has prepared from items purchased as part of his weekly supermarket shop. The cost of the packed lunch (even if it could be precisely identified) is not an expense incurred in the course of the journey and so is not attributable to the travel for the purpose of Sections 337 and 338.

Travel expenses: general: accommodation and subsistence: subsistence costs that are not attributable to the travel: examples