travel expenses

[Sockpuppet]

I take the view if you don't tell HMRC how are they going to find out.

My client books all my hotels for me. The BU Directors PA does it - my arguement is that to me the room is £250. To massive client co the hotel next to the office is £80 to them due to the purchasing power and that there are 30 other people in there. More than happy to pay 3x as much for a hotel and send them the bill but I don't think they are.

One thing that does work in my favour is that client co owns a hotel - but contractors are not allowed to stay in it. Instead we have to use hotels so that's a pointer in the other direction.

[Wanderer]

If I'm asked to visit another client site and they offer to arrange flights and hotel directly does that have ir35 implications. Should I be paying and then invoicing them instead ?

I don't worry too much about it. If the company book the flights and hotels then they take the risk/sort out the problems when the trip gets extended/cancelled/rearranged etc. I agree with Clare that it's a pretty minor pointer if anything.

As for the other expenses on trips, I tend to cover them out of my own company's expenses and not charge them back because they don't normally add up to all that much compared to my day rate anyway. The few times I have incurred some big expenses not directly paid by the client, I've just got agreement to book out a few extra hours to cover it rather than going through the palava of putting in expense claims.

I'm fortunate enough that I don't have to travel on business very often so maybe my method is a bit unorthodox, I don't know if I would get away with that long term.

[northernladuk]

For the client, I fill in expense forms and provide copy receipts. When they're approved, I add the amounts to my invoice. I don't see a problem with that.

For MyCo, I fill in different expense forms and provide original receipts. When they're approved, MyCo writes me a cheque.

So for every expense I incur on behalf of my client, I claim (sort of) twice, once to get the money from MyCo to me personally and once to get the money from ClientCo to MyCo.

No problems with that at all, thats what I do but we do have a lady here with a different agent who is following the normal permie expense route, fill in a sheet, gives original receipts and then gets paid the money to her bank. They asked if we could all follow this process but everyone said no and does as the above.

On the specific question, even if the client books hotels, I think you'll find that you pay for them personally at checkout. I think that airfares are about the only thing they they can book and pay for on your behalf. I don't think that's an IR35 indicator (my opinion only).

Our client uses a 3rd party bookng company that gives you a pre paid voucher you print off and hand in so no payment is required so it can be done although we are not required to follow this route.

[SueEllen]

For the client, I fill in expense forms and provide copy receipts. When they're approved, I add the amounts to my invoice. I don't see a problem with that.

For MyCo, I fill in different expense forms and provide original receipts. When they're approved, MyCo writes me a cheque.

You still use cheques!!!

So for every expense I incur on behalf of my client, I claim (sort of) twice, once to get the money from MyCo to me personally and once to get the money from ClientCo to MyCo.

On the specific question, even if the client books hotels, I think you'll find that you pay for them personally at checkout. I think that airfares are about the only thing they they can book and pay for on your behalf. I don't think that's an IR35 indicator (my opinion only).

The IR35 indicator is how you claim the expenses not that you claim the expenses of the client. So as long as you aren't claiming them the same way as the permies you are OK.

[Platypus]

I was talking about meals, taxis, parking etc. Out of pocket expenses that you incur. There is a chance the client will ask you to fill in expenses and give them the receipts and so on.... Just worth checking what they intend to do and try and negotiate yourself out of a situation that makes you look hidden permie.

For the client, I fill in expense forms and provide copy receipts. When they're approved, I add the amounts to my invoice. I don't see a problem with that.

For MyCo, I fill in different expense forms and provide original receipts. When they're approved, MyCo writes me a cheque.

So for every expense I incur on behalf of my client, I claim (sort of) twice, once to get the money from MyCo to me personally and once to get the money from ClientCo to MyCo.

On the specific question, even if the client books hotels, I think you'll find that you pay for them personally at checkout. I think that airfares are about the only thing they they can book and pay for on your behalf. I don't think that's an IR35 indicator (my opinion only).

[northernladuk]

Either you arrange for it and you pay for it, invoicing the expense back, or they book it and pay for it.

I was talking about meals, taxis, parking etc. Out of pocket expenses that you incur. There is a chance the client will ask you to fill in expenses and give them the receipts and so on.... Just worth checking what they intend to do and try and negotiate yourself out of a situation that makes you look hidden permie.

[TheFaQQer]

You should really pay for it and invoice it back to them. They should not force you to follow the same expense policy as permies.

Either you arrange for it and you pay for it, invoicing the expense back, or they book it and pay for it.

[northernladuk]

If I'm asked to visit another client site and they offer to arrange flights and hotel directly does that have ir35 implications. Should I be paying and then invoicing them instead ?

I asked the same question awhile ago and some one put it to me that you need a laptop to fulfil your role so they provide it, you need a flight and a hotel to fulfil your role so they provide it. It can easily be argued then that it has no IR35 flag.

As mentioned before it isn't a make or break issue and if you are covered elsewhere it isn't a biggie.

Just on a cautious side though check what they expect you to do with expenses. You should really pay for it and invoice it back to them. They should not force you to follow the same expense policy as permies.

[TheFaQQer]

If possible, try to avoid their employee mechanism for booking flights etc.

For example, if an employee books it through an internal system, then don't - get someone there to sort it out for you, which they wouldn't do for a permie.

[Clare@InTouch]

It depends on your working relationship. If you can prove you cover Substitution, Control or Mutuality of Obligation then you're outside of IR35 and it won't matter. If you're borderline then it could count against you as it's something an employer would do for an employee.

[jungleboogy]

If I'm asked to visit another client site and they offer to arrange flights and hotel directly does that have ir35 implications. Should I be paying and then invoicing them instead ?