Reply to: Rousseau International - any opinions?

[iandres]

So, as far as I understand, this is a risky scheme, that maybe could be working fine now, but probably in next months(april 2013?) the HRMC will look into it and is "declared" as ilegal, so, what would be the consequences for the contractor(me), taking in account that this scheme is based in a LLP? I've no knowledge about accountancy but I thought that with a LLP you have not liability and if, at some point, the HRMC declares your scheme as avoidance, or whatever term that they use, your accountant could shut down the LLP and ... could be a way to claim me any responsibility?

Well, anyway, I don't wanna go down that road, I prefer be sure that everything is legal, so, is there a way to cover my back? I mean, Rousseau is gonna be in between the HRCM and me managing my/our LLP, so, would be there a way to be sure that Rousseau is working properly with the HRCM?(paying the LLP taxes, etc) or could I claim to Rousseau some kind of papers, receipts, etc to be sure that they are doing everything legal and aren't putting me in risk?.

Regards

[ASB]

Is that not obvious!? And I do believe thuis has been covered in other threads but for clarity....

EBT you had to be an Employee which is now covered by December 2010 legislation and CBT you have to be self employed which was not covered off in the December 2010 legislation. Ultimately the same mechanisim different employement status. It's anyones guess why HMRC did not cover this off.

I imagine their first line of attack would possibly be related to employment status.

Actually being self employed is a very different thing to claiming to be self employed and is of course governed by a full employment status check. I struggle to see the relationship being one of actual self employment from how I have seen it described.

But, GAAR when it comes may well have it covered and whether or not it is covered by the recent changes is yet to be properly established.

I'm not saying it doesn't work or won't pass muster, just that there is a large amount of risk.

The judiciary seems at the moment to look at these things in a very unfavourable light, remembering a lot of the law is interpretive then this doesn't bode well.

Look for example at the recent NI decision in the IOM where an IOM employer with no UK presence has been found liable for secondary (employers) NI contributions. A very wide meaning of terms is being taken in judicial decisions.

This case also puts much more risk on the IOM (or wherever) provider. I think it is fair to assume they will be looking to mitigate that in some way, likely further increasing risk to scheme users.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Is that not obvious!? And I do believe thuis has been covered in other threads but for clarity....

EBT you had to be an Employee which is now covered by December 2010 legislation and CBT you have to be self employed which was not covered off in the December 2010 legislation. Ultimately the same mechanisim different employement status. It's anyones guess why HMRC did not cover this off.

That's my point - to all intents and purposes it is the same scheme. Why HMR&C haven't knocked it on the head - no idea - but they are not known for their speediness are they? I am sure they'll get round to it probably with the addition of retrospection based on the idea that people should have known it was a bad idea after they legislated against EBTs

[porrker]

How exactly do they differ?

Is that not obvious!? And I do believe thuis has been covered in other threads but for clarity....

EBT you had to be an Employee which is now covered by December 2010 legislation and CBT you have to be self employed which was not covered off in the December 2010 legislation. Ultimately the same mechanisim different employement status. It's anyones guess why HMRC did not cover this off.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I'm not sure I quite get your point! Contractor Benefit Trust is another term used for a Self Employed Benefit Trust. These are different from an Employee Benefit Trust. Some schemes use Self Employed Benefit Trusts as they didn't get covered in the December 2010 legislation. It's another issue to see if HMRC jump in their time machine and actually say these where covered.

How exactly do they differ?

[porrker]

Do you mean a 'contractor benefit trust' as opposed to an 'employee benefit trust' which were made illegal last year? Bit like comparing apples with apples

I'm not sure I quite get your point! Contractor Benefit Trust is another term used for a Self Employed Benefit Trust. These are different from an Employee Benefit Trust. Some schemes use Self Employed Benefit Trusts as they didn't get covered in the December 2010 legislation. It's another issue to see if HMRC jump in their time machine and actually say these where covered.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

If this is a Contractor Benefit Trust (CBT) then your only going to get 7 months worth of benefit from it... The General Anti Avoidance Regulation is due out in April 2013 which will more than likely put an end to these particular types of schemes.

Do you mean a 'contractor benefit trust' as opposed to an 'employee benefit trust' which were made illegal last year? Bit like comparing apples with apples

[porrker]

Your decision to use this type of scheme will be entirely dependent on your attitude to risk; if you are the sort of adrenalin junkie who gets their kicks out of leaping of high buildings whilst trusting their safety to a large handkerchief then give it a go.

If you do not have this sort of free spirited disregard for your future safety then I would suggest you consider other, less creative, options

If this is a Contractor Benefit Trust (CBT) then your only going to get 7 months worth of benefit from it... The General Anti Avoidance Regulation is due out in April 2013 which will more than likely put an end to these particular types of schemes.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Hi there, I know that this tread is almost dead but this Company(Rousseau International) is calling me and offering me that LLP Schema and I would like to get any feedback from anybody working with them on these basis, has anybody have any issue with these guys? or has anybody have checked "his product" with other accountants to get a second opinion?

thanks in advance

cheers,

Your decision to use this type of scheme will be entirely dependent on your attitude to risk; if you are the sort of adrenalin junkie who gets their kicks out of leaping of high buildings whilst trusting their safety to a large handkerchief then give it a go.

If you do not have this sort of free spirited disregard for your future safety then I would suggest you consider other, less creative, options

[iandres]

Hi there, I know that this tread is almost dead but this Company(Rousseau International) is calling me and offering me that LLP Schema and I would like to get any feedback from anybody working with them on these basis, has anybody have any issue with these guys? or has anybody have checked "his product" with other accountants to get a second opinion?

thanks in advance

cheers,

[DaveB]

Hmm, just joined, 4 posts, all in this thread, all in support of the company having questions asked of it.

Oh, and too.

I'd use the Grammar smiley as well, if we had one.

[cojak]

The Swiss might know banking but subtly clearly isn't their thing

Must be Schweizerdeutsch

[geoff from contracta IOM]

I'd been with them for 3 years, nothing better is out there... I used to run my LTD, the mess with the accountant, the paper work, the insurances, the whole headache for what?
now, I do NOTHING, just work, send them my timesheet, get my money, use the prepaid business card for my disposable income, no liabilities, audits from HMRC, nothing, nothing to worry. its all legal, it combines a umbrella co. (barclaycarter) and the LLP to do the payments, they are a swiss company based in london, and who knows better than the swiss for banking, etc...
I dont have to close my LTD, I just dont use it.. but so far.. works wonders, and I had referred 4 of my friends they had signed up and I got £500 for each of them , every year,.. tax free!! pocket money...
the solution they offer is used by tons of companies in the UK, doing business inland or abroad.. and they are others out there offering similar solutions.. so this is no brainer.. but if you don't understand, just ask to be explain.. instead of reading for old fashionists...
if you work for your money.. then GET YOUR MONEY!!!..
good luck!!

The Swiss might know banking but subtly clearly isn't their thing

[cojak]

yeah get yourself a good umbrella company, that can give not more than 63% of your returns,, go ahead work for then so they can make money USING YOU....

Since you've ignored the other Ltd option posts and that you didn't appear before they noticed our existence, I take it that you work for RI then ragazzo?

[kernow69]

3 years??? I've been doing this a while and I'm damn sure they haven't been around 3 years!

I'd been with them for 3 years, nothing better is out there... I used to run my LTD, the mess with the accountant, the paper work, the insurances, the whole headache for what?
now, I do NOTHING, just work, send them my timesheet, get my money, no liabilities, audits from HMRC, nothing, nothing to worry. its all legal etc...
I dont have to close my LTD, I just dont use it.. but so far.. works wonders, and I had referred 4 of my friends they had signed up and I got £500 for each of them , every year,.. tax free!! pocket money...
the solution they offer is used by tons of companies in the UK, doing business inland or abroad.. and they are others out there offering similar solutions.. so this is no brainer.. but if you don't understand, just ask to be explain.. instead of reading for old fashionists...
if you work for your money.. then GET YOUR MONEY!!!..
good luck!!