Reply to: Loans from EBTs and other Trusts

[regron]

Relax, I am set up happily as a ltd company and wouldn't risk it (who knows when the umbrella company would become insolvent/disappear) - my question was really that, are there potentially quite a lot of people who will get away with it due to technicalities of the loan structure?

Until HMRC catch up with them and amend the rules again.

[madame SasGuru]

Relax, I am set up happily as a ltd company and wouldn't risk it (who knows when the umbrella company would become insolvent/disappear) - my question was really that, are there potentially quite a lot of people who will get away with it due to technicalities of the loan structure?

Well they aren't umbrella companies so I wouldn't call them umbrellas but everything is supposedly covered by the 2019 loan charge and if not I'm sure it would be in the subsequent one or when the self assessment was checked and HMRC presents a very large bill with attached fine.

[1manshow]

FTFY - personally any scheme is nowadays in scope and HMRC have enough tools in their armory to ensure you pay the full tax due (and more) when they eventually get round to chasing you x years hence.

But go ahead and join a scheme if you want to I've given up protecting the terminally stupid from their own greed.

Relax, I am set up happily as a ltd company and wouldn't risk it (who knows when the umbrella company would become insolvent/disappear) - my question was really that, are there potentially quite a lot of people who will get away with it due to technicalities of the loan structure?

[Fred Bloggs]

I'm being advised that only 3rd party loans are in scope for the 2019 loan change and that it doesn't affect loans classed as first party..Can anyone confirm this?

Yes, I can totally confirm that to be the case 100%. Go right ahead and fill your boots I'd say, what could possibly go wrong eh?

[madame SasGuru]

I'm being advised that only 3rd party loans are in scope for the 2019 loan change and that it doesn't affect loans classed as first party..Can anyone confirm this?

Let me get this right - in a forum where at the top there are a set of people facing bankruptcy after HMRC finally got round to taxing the money they received as loans you still think that HMRC won't be chasing a particular type of "loan" scheme because its different to other ones - nope I can't see that being the case.

Work out how much money they are making from playing with money that should be yours and note my comment from yesterday afternoon and in your case actually go and get some paid advice from someone who isn't the scheme salesman....

[bhand5]

First party loans

I would ask if if they are currently NOT in scope.

HMRC is reeling them all in and they will all definitely come into scope come April 2019.

I'm being advised that only 3rd party loans are in scope for the 2019 loan change and that it doesn't affect loans classed as first party..Can anyone confirm this?

[cojak]

I noticed there are still some loan schemes that exist (e.g. comparetheumbrella.co.uk are a broker for them). They state they are UK based and that they use commercial loans (with a 3%+ interest) to bypass certain issues.

They also advise they have indemnity in place in the instance the loan should be recalled.

My question really is, what is really different about these than the ones the finance bill is about? They seem quite adamant that these are structured differently to bypass these new regulations, but how much truth is there.

I understand there is always the chance in the future HMRC changes things so anything can fall in scope - I guess really I am looking for confirmation whether these brokers are advertising schemes which are actually CURRENTLY in scope of these rules.

I would ask if if they are currently NOT in scope.

HMRC is reeling them all in and they will all definitely come into scope come April 2019.

[madame SasGuru]

I noticed there are still some loan schemes that exist (e.g. comparetheumbrella.co.uk is a front for them). They state they are UK based and that they use commercial loans (with a 3%+ interest) to bypass certain issues.
.

FTFY - personally any scheme is nowadays in scope and HMRC have enough tools in their armory to ensure you pay the full tax due (and more) when they eventually get round to chasing you x years hence.

But go ahead and join a scheme if you want to I've given up protecting the terminally stupid from their own greed.

[1manshow]

I noticed there are still some loan schemes that exist (e.g. comparetheumbrella.co.uk are a broker for them). They state they are UK based and that they use commercial loans (with a 3%+ interest) to bypass certain issues.

They also advise they have indemnity in place in the instance the loan should be recalled.

My question really is, what is really different about these than the ones the finance bill is about? They seem quite adamant that these are structured differently to bypass these new regulations, but how much truth is there.

I understand there is always the chance in the future HMRC changes things so anything can fall in scope - I guess really I am looking for confirmation whether these brokers are advertising schemes which are actually CURRENTLY in scope of these rules.

[BrilloPad]

Things are moving along just fine.

For you or those you represent?

[foobar]

Then they should try a different marketing strategy.

Things are moving along just fine.

[BrilloPad]

There are other groups operating who do not trumpet everything on a public forum.

Then they should try a different marketing strategy.

[foobar]

There are effectively 2 choices. Pay HMRC or get BG to represent you.

Personally I think the chances of success against HMRC are very slim. However I said that about NTRT and was proved wrong.

There are other groups operating who do not trumpet everything on a public forum.

[Fred Bloggs]

Hi,

I agree with you but that is not my reason for responding. I just wanted to thank you for making me laugh out loud a number of times as I read your "label" / user name & comments. Excellent, I wish I thought of it because it describe me to a T.

Cheers.

Well thank you. In turn, you have brightened my day no end.

[HMRC made Atlas Shrug]

Well said Webberg. I am not a client of yours and never likely to be. But in this chaotic situation where everyone else who "offered to help" appears to have an agenda which involves milking the greedy/naive scheme users for even more revenue, I find your approach refreshingly honest and open. Other opinions etc are of course available, that is mine and I have no vested interest in saying so.

Hi,

I agree with you but that is not my reason for responding. I just wanted to thank you for making me laugh out loud a number of times as I read your "label" / user name & comments. Excellent, I wish I thought of it because it describe me to a T.

Cheers.