Reply to: Is This Legal?

[Alexander Coe]

was meant tongue in cheek - but most of us certainly seem to enjoy moaning about one agencies or another from time to time...

[malvolio]

Oi! Objection!!

Let's be clear that I only ever bitch at agencies that don't treat us (well, me, at least) as professionals. People like Pendragon and SQ are worthy of praise, people like CP and CF aren't. IMHO. Allegedly...

[weemster]

I have contracted through them before. Prompt payers, Paperwork useless.

[Alexander Coe]

point taken - but I think you're being a whee bit pedantic

[Denny]

yeah, guess we are a bit of a paranoid bunch at time - just took your unbridled enthusiasm for computer people as a bit of a sales pitch, especially as the rest of us were busy indulging in one of our favourite pastimes... bitching about agencies

We don't bitch about agencies, we bitch about employment businesses.

An important difference.

[Alexander Coe]

yeah, guess we are a bit of a paranoid bunch at time - just took your unbridled enthusiasm for computer people as a bit of a sales pitch, especially as the rest of us were busy indulging in one of our favourite pastimes... bitching about agencies

[Torran]

Its that smilie wave that really sets the alarm bell ringing!!!

Paranoid contractors there is a novelty The smiley wave means that they pay me on time everytime and I have never had any problems with them.
That and I'm a naturally, content, happy person (despite being a contractor for the last 6 years)

That is all.

[Denny]

Just thought I'd mention that Lorien have always been willing to re-assign my contract to a different company mid-contract. I don't know if my contract requires them to do this. I just assumed it was because they didn't care who they paid fees to as long as it resulted in me turning up for work and them getting paid.

The first time I asked them I had barely got the words out of my mouth before they said "no problem" and asked for the new company details.

Good for you.

The issue that some employment businesses may have, though, is if the recruiter initially signed terms with a safe brolly that pays you via PAYE, even if they didn't give you a list of one's they approved (like Hays and CP) and then you want to change to an offshore or some other dodgy composite arrangement mid-contract and told the recruiter that you were prepared to compromise the end-client's interests by saying 'it's either this brolly or nothing - otherwise I 'walk'.' If the contract doesn't allow a notice period on your side this could make things very difficult for both the recruiter and end-client should you decide to 'walk'.

Strictly speaking if you are 'employed' by your 'brolly' during the contract period and paid PAYE then it isn't logical for any agency to agree to any contractor swapping employers half way through. A permanent employee wouldn't be able to say their boss that they're continuing to work for them via another employer would they? Having said that, on ethical grounds, it shouldn't matter a jot considering we're not just 'employees' at all because we pay employers NI. A brolly who pays us PAYE are, technically speaking, also our 'owner managed delegated Directors' not our employers. That's why it's important for contractors to ensure that their brolly views them as the client whose sole interests they should serve, not the recruiter's interests. Be wary of any brolly that cozies up to agencies too much, affiliates with ATSCO, PGC and so on. Ultimately they're hoping to win business from associated member employment businesses via referrals and your own interests are likely to be compromised should they ever need to challenge the behaviours and practices of a shafting member recruiter who hasn't paid you (via the brolly). They will probably decide that in the longer term they have more to lose by taking up that challenge and will instead conclude that it's more profitable in the long run by shafting you by keeping chums with these recruiters.

No wonder Gordo is looking into the ethics and practices of brollies.

[IR35 Avoider]

Just thought I'd mention that Lorien have always been willing to re-assign my contract to a different company mid-contract. I don't know if my contract requires them to do this. I just assumed it was because they didn't care who they paid fees to as long as it resulted in me turning up for work and them getting paid.

The first time I asked them I had barely got the words out of my mouth before they said "no problem" and asked for the new company details.

[malvolio]

Quite right, sorry. Ajilon own CP.

[Denny]

[QUOTE=malvolio]...

S3 group who own CP QUOTE]

CF actually.

[Alexander Coe]

Its that smilie wave that really sets the alarm bell ringing!!!

[cojak]

Ooh you old cynic, Alex!

[Alexander Coe]

To be fair to them they've always paid on time over the length of the contract and answered most questions pretty quickly. I think if you play by their rules all is grand but step out the box and they don't like it.

Thats fair enough...

I'm with them at the moment and they have been excellent

But to display this amount of enthusiasm about any agency, especially Computer People, you've got to be pimp in disguise

[malvolio]

Up yours, sweetpea, I'm serious. Consider...

S3 group who own CP and others are determined to build a market where the only source of contractors is through them and similar monolithic companies. They are also behind the consultations that gave us IR35 in the first place (which was nothing to do with fair taxation but is actually all about limiting their competition). It is their marketing strategy that has fed so much FUD into the HR world that we get all these stupid and unnecessary interferences in the way we try to work.

They have also conned you into signing a contrct that effectively makes you their employee, except that you get none of the rights that employees have been getting since around the middle of the 19th century.

So if you think that is a good move and they are a good comapny to be with, carry on. Meanwhile, the grown-ups may not necessarily agree with you.