Training other contractors

[xoggoth]

Wish Indians were half as stupid/useless as some on this board seem to imply they are. All the ones I've met seem much too competent for my liking.

[bfg]

Mordac is right.
You're lined up to be well in the money after a short while, trouble is they will have massacred the code by then so it will painfully slow fixing it.

If you are not qualified as a trainer of any sort then who can blame you if your training is sub-standard and patchy and takes forever. After all it takes several years to qualify to teach children the very basics (GCSE) of a fairly non-specialised subject. How could an IT specialist hope to do high quality training in a specialised area to non-native language students - no matter how professionaly they undertook the task.

[cojak]

Two excellent posts from XLMonkey:

When similar things have happened to me I found that the best way out was to try to make a virtue of the process: sell the client training and knowledge transfer services and then position myself to help supervise and assure the work that the offshore outfit was doing.

and Mordac

I'd stay on good terms with the client if I were you. In a couple of years, they are going to be right in the tulip, and will need someone with the expert knowledge to get them out of it.

You need to take the long view, get yerself ISEB Testing qualified (if you aren't already) to keep yerself clear of the cheapo out-source chappies, be professional in your conduct towards them and that includes the training aspect, keep a good relationship with the client for when they ask you back (I know other have been asked back in similar positions).

There's no point being childish about it - it's the way of the contracting world, you'll just have to expand your repertoire to keep yourself ahead of the game.

[Cowboy Bob]

Only if you have a distinction in your contract between foreground and background intellectual property:

Background IPR = tools, techniques and methodologies that you brought to the client prior to starting the assignment, and which are not client specific
Foreground IPR = anything created as part of the work itself.

You can, in your contract, make the distinction between the two and retain all rights in background IPR. However, unless this distinction is clearly laid out in the contract then the odds are that the client has the right to everything.

Not if you open source it. I got fed up with re-inventing the wheel everytime I did a new contract, so I re-wrote a lot of it to make sure I didn't infringe on people's IP and stuck it up on Sourceforge - https://sourceforge.net/projects/mpsc-modules/

It remains my property (copyrighted to me) but I published it under the Apache license so anyone can do with it as they wish (including the end client).

I can now explain to a client that I can do it for £X if I can use my existing code (they own all the project specific stuff), but if they want to own 100% of the code it will cost them £Y, where £Y is significantly greater than £X.

It's a win-win from my point of view.

[XLMonkey]

To put it another way, would it be a breach of contract to refuse to divulge what I consider to be my intellectual property? (rhetorical question, I'll have to read the contract and consult legal opinion)

Only if you have a distinction in your contract between foreground and background intellectual property:

Background IPR = tools, techniques and methodologies that you brought to the client prior to starting the assignment, and which are not client specific
Foreground IPR = anything created as part of the work itself.

You can, in your contract, make the distinction between the two and retain all rights in background IPR. However, unless this distinction is clearly laid out in the contract then the odds are that the client has the right to everything.

[MrsGoof]

You dont have to train them very well.

Give them enough to appear proficient, but will be totally out of their depth if left alone.

Disclaimer: 1/ I would not encourage or follow my own advice re this issue.
2/ Ingnore 1

[Mordac]

If they're about to outsource the whole lot to Wipro-Monkeys, I'd stay on good terms with the client if I were you. In a couple of years, they are going to be right in the tulip, and will need someone with the expert knowledge to get them out of it. At which point you will find your rates will have gone up.

[The Master]

As regards IP, you will need to check your contract again. Most contracts for BoS contractors have an "all IP rights are waived and passed to the client" clause in them.

[meridian]

Sorry, should reiterate that I don't have a problem training the permies, my queries relate solely to other contractors...

[meridian]

Hmmm, I'll have to check the contract but no doubt it'll probably have some catch-all like "other services as directed by client".

However, I still have a problem with whether or not the process of testing and configuration (as distinct from the software itself) are my own intellectual property and so the client cannot direct me to train others in this (although I take the point that the client can ask me to do whatever they please....).

To put it another way, would it be a breach of contract to refuse to divulge what I consider to be my intellectual property? (rhetorical question, I'll have to read the contract and consult legal opinion)

[XLMonkey]

Legal position will depend on your contract, but if providing training and knowledge transfer is part of the job spec, then you will have to do it regardless of whether their name is Pat or Patel.

Ethical position seems to me to be straightforward -- you're under contract to provide a professional service and you have a duty to do it. There's nothing ethically wrong with the client saying -- "once you've developed this I want the ability to have someone else do support and ongoing maintenance". There is something ethically wrong with trying to avoid obligations under the contract to protect your commercial interests.

I accept it's a tricky position to be in, though. When similar things have happened to me I found that the best way out was to try to make a virtue of the process: sell the client training and knowledge transfer services and then position myself to help supervise and assure the work that the offshore outfit was doing. Oddly enough, it made it easier to get an increase in the fee rate as well.

More generally, it seems to me that the contract market for programming and systems development is becoming increasingly squeezed by these low-cost offshore operations. The good money in future is in requirements definition and managing the overall development and implementation process, rather than code-cutting.

[The Master]

Depends entirely on your contract. If, as I suspect you are, you are a bum-on-seat contractor, your contract probably has a clause in it that says "you will do whatever the client wants you to do". In that case, you have little choice but to get on with it.

If, on the other hand, your contract was for a specific job or project and contains details of the deliverables required, and training is not one of them, well the path to negotiation is open.

[privateeye]

I would say the writing is on the wall but honour your contract. Cover yourself and start looking for something new.

[G8_Summit]

Ultimately, the client can ask you to do what they want. If you don't want to do it, then thats up to you, but I presume the client would then get rid of you at the earliest opportunity.

[meridian]

Hi All,

I'm midway through a long-term contract configuring and testing software as a senior member of a team. The software is fairly specialised and requires a fair degree of training on it before configuration can start.

I've been asked by my client to train other contractors (cheaper outsourcing from India) to do my job, ostensibly to provide better cover in case I'm off for whatever reason but I can see the writing's on the wall.....

The training is in two parts - how to use the software, and how to test it. I don't have a problem training permanent members of the client's staff in the software as it is their intellectual property, but I'm buggered if I'm going to train a cheaper contractor on both the software and testing process if it risks my (and my company's) income).

What's the legal/ethical position on this? Can the client force me to provide training to other nominated contractors?