Reply to: more than 24 months claiming expenses - any way around?

[ShandyDrinker]

Having thought about this a little more over the last couple of days what would be the situation if the company paid for the travel/accommodation to the client site rather than me paying personally and claiming back from the company? Surely it is just seen as a cost of sales? As I'm no accountant I don't know. I have asked my accountant to get back to me about it (if indeed they know).

It just seems rather daft to me that I should potentially be put in a position to turn down work (due to the cost of getting to the location outside of the UK mainland) because of this rule.

[SueEllen]

Question is can I do this?., afteral SE Kent can be deemed as permanent work place which then makes SW England a temporary journey despite the fact that I have been going there at least twice a week for last 8 mths

I would advise you to read and digest HMRC booklet 490.

Now personally as long as the contract my employer had made it clear that my permanent place of work was SE Kent then I would say that the place in SW England was temporary. I would expect my employer's contract to clearly state the address of the office in SW Kent was the place of work. However I'm aware that consultancies get around paying travelling expenses for employees by stating that offices in particular geographic locations are permanent work places even if the locations aren't right next to each other.

[Wanderer]

As my LTD co registered address is my home address, HMRC said any service/client requiring my presence at a different location e.g. client office, allows me opportunity to claim travel expenses. HMRC said the 24mth rule does not apply as long as my contract is IR35 compliant

Did they record the conversation?

Sounds like you do most of your work from your home office, is that right?

[diesel]

a few months ago i queried this with my accountant. Accountant decided to phone HMRC helpline for advice on my behalf. As my LTD co registered address is my home address, HMRC said any service/client requiring my presence at a different location e.g. client office, allows me opportunity to claim travel expenses. HMRC said the 24mth rule does not apply as long as my contract is IR35 compliant .

I found it had to understand, but been with same client for abut 3 years, but in those years worked elsewhere in between at different locations, sometimes working for 2 clients part time. Back with main client full time for now.

[Wanderer]

I would love to set up an LTD, but are too worried I'll be caught by IR35, as I am working for the same company, doing the same job, for a longer period of time. Is it all down to the wording of the contract, or do they actually look into where you are working, etc?

So they are offering an extension now? Get a sample copy of the contract, get it reviewed and then see if you can negotiate an IR35 friendly contract. The working practices have to reflect the actual contract but that's all so wishy-washy that I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you have an opinion that your contract is outside and your work doesn't substantially differ from what's in the contract you're fine. At worst, you'll probably have to pay up the tax you avoided by not going umbrella and that's it.

Running a LTD is a bit of admin though, find a good accountant who can sort it all out for you. You will also need insurance for most jobs. Check out the PCG, they can sign you up to a package with it all sorted.

[Bunk]

I think you have to be careful with this as I was looking at it only recently. The link (provided by another poster) on the HMRC website states something to the effect of if you spend more than 40% of your time in a particular location over 24 months then you will no longer be able to claim expenses.

I am in the situation where I have spent approximately 20 months at client A site, with a break of 5 months at other clients and have now been asked if I would be prepared to go back to client A. As travel and accommodation to this site is expensive (outside of the UK) I'm currently not sure whether I'd be able to claim travel and accommodation as it would probably put me over the 24 months.

So from Fred's post I changed locations but am not 100% sure that it does reset the clock even though I had no idea the extra work may come about...

Anyone else been in a similar situation and have a view?

As someone mentioned, it's a rolling 24 month period, so in your case if you went back now, out of the last 24 months you've spent 19 months on site and 5 months away. That's about 79% of your time at that location so you couldn't claim. That's probably simplified a lot compared to the actual rules but I'm pretty sure the idea is right.

Disclaimer: I'm not an accountant, blah blah etc.

[css_jay99]

Hi all, here is my situation.

I live in London and I am currently 32mths into by existing contract in SE Kent. This is a 120mile daily round trip. I technically stopped claiming mileage allowance to office at about 23mth.

However at about 22mths into my contract I started visiting my clients other site in SW England which is also about 130mile roundtrip home BUT different direction. I tend to do this 2/3 times a week depending what I need to do in the other office

I used the word Technically above because I still claim mileage allowance for the days that I go to client site in SW England.


Question is can I do this?., afteral SE Kent can be deemed as permanent work place which then makes SW England a temporary journey despite the fact that I have been going there at least twice a week for last 8 mths


css_jay99

[SueEllen]

It certainly sounds like I'd need advice from an accountant if it looks likely that the work will go ahead. I have to say that all the scenarios they discuss in the HMRC do not really give a clear and consistent picture of what is acceptable and what isn't.

You have an additional problem if the work is outside the UK - where you should be taxed.

There are European countries that allow you to be taxed in the UK for 182/3 days in one tax year but if you work there again within 3/4 year period you must pay tax in that country not in the UK for the entire period you were in that country.

Some are nice and also give you a tax allowance for having a home and having to regularly see family outside that country others aren't.

Unfortunately it's unlikely a UK accountant won't be able to give you proper advise on this as they are unlikely to be qualified in two tax jurisdictions, so you have to google for up to date information from that particular country's tax office.

If you are lucky the tax rules will be a damn lot simpler to understand than HMRC. You can also ask on here as someone else is likely to have worked in that country and studied the rules.

BTW you can probably get away with still paying NI in the UK.

[SueEllen]

I would love to set up an LTD, but are too worried I'll be caught by IR35, as I am working for the same company, doing the same job, for a longer period of time. Is it all down to the wording of the contract, or do they actually look into where you are working, etc?

Contract wording plus how you work.

There is no point having a compliant contract if you don't work in that way. If you get investigated they will ask people at the client how you work.

And no there is no way around the 24 month rule.

[Fred Bloggs]

It certainly sounds like I'd need advice from an accountant if it looks likely that the work will go ahead. I have to say that all the scenarios they discuss in the HMRC do not really give a clear and consistent picture of what is acceptable and what isn't.

And that is exactly how it is intended to be!

[ShandyDrinker]

It is a rolling 24 months period, so the workings can be overly complicated and rather tedious I'm afraid.

It certainly sounds like I'd need advice from an accountant if it looks likely that the work will go ahead. I have to say that all the scenarios they discuss in the HMRC do not really give a clear and consistent picture of what is acceptable and what isn't.

[Fred Bloggs]

I think you have to be careful with this as I was looking at it only recently. The link (provided by another poster) on the HMRC website states something to the effect of if you spend more than 40% of your time in a particular location over 24 months then you will no longer be able to claim expenses.

I am in the situation where I have spent approximately 20 months at client A site, with a break of 5 months at other clients and have now been asked if I would be prepared to go back to client A. As travel and accommodation to this site is expensive (outside of the UK) I'm currently not sure whether I'd be able to claim travel and accommodation as it would probably put me over the 24 months.

So from Fred's post I changed locations but am not 100% sure that it does reset the clock even though I had no idea the extra work may come about...

Anyone else been in a similar situation and have a view?

It is a rolling 24 months period, so the workings can be overly complicated and rather tedious I'm afraid.

[ShandyDrinker]

No, it definitely doesn't reset the clock. To reset the clock you need to change locations.

I think you have to be careful with this as I was looking at it only recently. The link (provided by another poster) on the HMRC website states something to the effect of if you spend more than 40% of your time in a particular location over 24 months then you will no longer be able to claim expenses.

I am in the situation where I have spent approximately 20 months at client A site, with a break of 5 months at other clients and have now been asked if I would be prepared to go back to client A. As travel and accommodation to this site is expensive (outside of the UK) I'm currently not sure whether I'd be able to claim travel and accommodation as it would probably put me over the 24 months.

So from Fred's post I changed locations but am not 100% sure that it does reset the clock even though I had no idea the extra work may come about...

Anyone else been in a similar situation and have a view?

[Fred Bloggs]

I know, but in my situation I am contracted to work with Company B, yet they hire me out to work for company C.. Which is why I though if my contract was with another company (Company D), it might change the way the 24 months are counted.

No, it definitely doesn't reset the clock. To reset the clock you need to change locations.

[scope]

If you have been lurking you should have noticed the sticky with a load of links about this and also there is a 6 page threadon this exact topic only a few posts down from this one that covers this in great detail.

I know, but in my situation I am contracted to work with Company B, yet they hire me out to work for company C.. Which is why I though if my contract was with another company (Company D), it might change the way the 24 months are counted.

I would love to set up an LTD, but are too worried I'll be caught by IR35, as I am working for the same company, doing the same job, for a longer period of time. Is it all down to the wording of the contract, or do they actually look into where you are working, etc?