Reply to: Transfering personal debts to ltd company?

[Steven@Parasol]

[QUOTE=Bexter;1169040]Well yes, this is the thing, I've tried 3 already! I don't understand, I send my timesheet to them and my agency on a friday afternoon, always on time and within deadlines, but yet they seem to mess it up more often than they get it right! But unfortuantely, I think for me its the only thing I can do right now.


Are you sending your umbrella your expenses at the same time as your timesheets? If not this could be where the delay is coming from?

Also, everytime you've changed umbrella there should have been a new contract drawn up, which again could be a reason for the delay?

[SueEllen]

Well yes, this is the thing, I've tried 3 already! I don't understand, I send my timesheet to them and my agency on a friday afternoon, always on time and within deadlines, but yet they seem to mess it up more often than they get it right! But unfortuantely, I think for me its the only thing I can do right now.

You sure it's not the agency you use mucking you around?

Thanks Sue ellen for the information, I appreciate what you say about getting contract rewritten, but if it really doesn't reflect what I do, aren't I taking quite a big risk? Plus, if I do get investigated and they find B&C gave me advice that I was inside, looks a bit incriminating doesn't it?

If your working practises are strictly within IR35 then you can't get out of it.

If they are not or you can easily change them not to be then you should get the contract rewritten.

Lots of it depends on the client's practise not the agent view as the agent doesn't tend to know what is going on site unless they place loads of contractors there and one blabs.

[Bexter]

If you're inside IR35 and it seems like you are based on B&C's review, then dividends are not an option anyway.

Why not just find a new brolly that doesn't screw you around?

Well yes, this is the thing, I've tried 3 already! I don't understand, I send my timesheet to them and my agency on a friday afternoon, always on time and within deadlines, but yet they seem to mess it up more often than they get it right! But unfortuantely, I think for me its the only thing I can do right now.

Thanks Sue ellen for the information, I appreciate what you say about getting contract rewritten, but if it really doesn't reflect what I do, aren't I taking quite a big risk? Plus, if I do get investigated and they find B&C gave me advice that I was inside, looks a bit incriminating doesn't it?

[SallyPlanIT]

thank you all for the replies, definately given me things to think about.


I understand my questions are questions for an accountant, but as I'm not currently doing the ltd company, I don't have an accountant to ask! So I appreciate your comments. I've been reading the forum for a while so I know you all know what you're doing, I'm just still a bit lost with the whole thing. I'll figure it out eventually!

First of all, if you want to call or email me I'm more than happy to explain the ins and outs of a ltd company, and how it would or wouldn't work for you.

Secondly, did you consider moving to an umbrella company that will do your payroll correctly?

[Pondlife]

If you're inside IR35 and it seems like you are based on B&C's review, then dividends are not an option anyway.

Why not just find a new brolly that doesn't screw you around?

[SueEllen]

I took advice from Bauer and Cotterrel and they told me there was no point in re-negotiating my contract because the nature of my working practices in reality were what put me inside IR35, therefore changing the contract would mean changing to an extent it didn't reflect what I did. Also, I spoke to my agency and they refused to change my contract anyway, so I just felt stuck.

I use a lawyer or two.

Oddly when you mention a lawyer pointed out this clause is stupid or pointless to some agencies they do what you want. With others you actually have to get the lawyer to rewrite the contract AND speak to them.

The reason they back off while lots of them claim to have legal teams due to how the contract is worded you know it hasn't been written by a lawyer.

And with regards to hiring an accountant, why would I do that now, when I'm not running a limited company now? Fair enough, I do need some qualified opinion, so maybe I'll just go and see an accountant for information and just pay them for their time to tell me what I need to know.

All the basic information you need is free. (I've highlighted some sources it in my other post.) You only need to employ an accountant when you have set up your company. However don't expect the accountant to do more than provide you with basic advice unless you pay them extra.

One thing you need to get into your head now is the company is a separate legal entity to you. So if you can't transfer your debts to me how can you transfer your debts to a company?

[Bexter]

However until HMRC come after you there is actually no way of knowing whether you actually do fall under IR35.

Plus you are better of renegotiating your contract before you start the role so you don't fall under it, and then making sure your working practises don't fall under IR35 either.

I took advice from Bauer and Cotterrel and they told me there was no point in re-negotiating my contract because the nature of my working practices in reality were what put me inside IR35, therefore changing the contract would mean changing to an extent it didn't reflect what I did. Also, I spoke to my agency and they refused to change my contract anyway, so I just felt stuck.

And with regards to hiring an accountant, why would I do that now, when I'm not running a limited company now? Fair enough, I do need some qualified opinion, so maybe I'll just go and see an accountant for information and just pay them for their time to tell me what I need to know.

[SueEllen]

I'm sorry, I was under the impression this forum was a place where I could ask questions to improve my 'basic grasp' of accounting. And this is exactly why I don't run my ltd company, cause some people on here make out like its impossible and only the god-like human beings that you are, are capable of doing it!

If you have been reading these boards like you say you have you would be aware that there are links to various HMRC manuals stating what you can and can't claim as expenses, how to do your VAT etc.

There are also links to various first timers guides on here, the PCG and various accountants own.

Any question that gets asked and you answer with "are you sure you should be running your own company".

That is because your question means that you don't understand one basic fundamental of running a company. Company you are a director of != you.

And regarding IR35, I paid to have my contract reviewed by bauer and cotterrel, because I'm not an expert in this!

Fine.

However until HMRC come after you there is actually no way of knowing whether you actually do fall under IR35.

Plus you are better of renegotiating your contract before you start the role so you don't fall under it, and then making sure your working practises don't fall under IR35 either.

Regardless of what you may think, I'm not trying to be stupid about this! I've just never done it before, and all of my friends who are contractors have been very unhelpful as they all run their's through an offshore fund where they get a loan, which I refused to do cause I think its stupid! Where else can I get useful information from, given that I don't currently employ an accountant and the internet is full of conflicting information!

That's why you need to employ an accountant.

You are not saving money by not employing one unless you think your time is worthless.

An accountant's job is to keep up to date with current tax legislation which in this country is complex, and know who to apply it. If you can't do this yourself i.e. are not trained in the field then you need to employ an accountant.

I strongly suggest you use the search facility to find out how to choose an accountant and go an employ one to avoid getting into more mess.

[Bexter]

Are you sure about this? Sorry to question you but with the grasp on basic accounting do you know IR35 enough to be sure?


Oh dear Where do you get these ideas from??? Why on earth would you get a tax reduction from a car loan??



No you don't I am afraid!!

FTFY

I'm sorry, I was under the impression this forum was a place where I could ask questions to improve my 'basic grasp' of accounting. And this is exactly why I don't run my ltd company, cause some people on here make out like its impossible and only the god-like human beings that you are, are capable of doing it!
Any question that gets asked and you answer with "are you sure you should be running your own company".

And regarding IR35, I paid to have my contract reviewed by bauer and cotterrel, because I'm not an expert in this! Regardless of what you may think, I'm not trying to be stupid about this! I've just never done it before, and all of my friends who are contractors have been very unhelpful as they all run their's through an offshore fund where they get a loan, which I refused to do cause I think its stupid! Where else can I get useful information from, given that I don't currently employ an accountant and the internet is full of conflicting information!

[northernladuk]

I am currently inside IR35, so I had no reason to do ltd

Are you sure about this? Sorry to question you but with the grasp on basic accounting do you know IR35 enough to be sure?

unless I could find some kind of benefit for me, i.e. tax reductions from things like a car loan etc.

Oh dear Where do you get these ideas from??? Why on earth would you get a tax reduction from a car loan??

I want to move to ltd because the umbrella companies

No you don't I am afraid!!

I'll go to jail eventually!

FTFY

[dynamicsaxcontractor]

thank you all for the replies, definately given me things to think about.

I am currently inside IR35, so I had no reason to do ltd, unless I could find some kind of benefit for me, i.e. tax reductions from things like a car loan etc.
I want to move to ltd because the umbrella companies I'm with have either got my pay wrong, or not paid me anything, every single week, I have to chase them every week and I'm sick of it! I hate not being in control of my money. But as it stands I can't find any significant benefit for me to move, given the extra paperwork, hassle and responsibility of it all.

I understand my questions are questions for an accountant, but as I'm not currently doing the ltd company, I don't have an accountant to ask! So I appreciate your comments. I've been reading the forum for a while so I know you all know what you're doing, I'm just still a bit lost with the whole thing. I'll figure it out eventually!

Are you sure you would be able to run a limited company?

[Bexter]

thank you all for the replies, definately given me things to think about.

I am currently inside IR35, so I had no reason to do ltd, unless I could find some kind of benefit for me, i.e. tax reductions from things like a car loan etc.
I want to move to ltd because the umbrella companies I'm with have either got my pay wrong, or not paid me anything, every single week, I have to chase them every week and I'm sick of it! I hate not being in control of my money. But as it stands I can't find any significant benefit for me to move, given the extra paperwork, hassle and responsibility of it all.

I understand my questions are questions for an accountant, but as I'm not currently doing the ltd company, I don't have an accountant to ask! So I appreciate your comments. I've been reading the forum for a while so I know you all know what you're doing, I'm just still a bit lost with the whole thing. I'll figure it out eventually!

[Wanderer]

Never mix business money with personal money.

That's good advice from TheFaQQer.

Bexter, if you have a penchant for playing with fire then you can quite legally take the VAT/PAYE/CT money out of the company account and call it a director's loan. You had better understand what you are doing and be able to pay it back when the HMRC is due to be paid though. Read all about directors loans and see if you can make sense of it. You really will need a friendly accountant on your side if you are going to do this and have enough personal credit avaiable for you to pay your company back and hit the payment deadlines with the right amounts at the right times.

[TheFaQQer]

Agreed. If you are in debt while contracting then you are in a high risk situation...

Good point - if you have large debts, how do you intend to survive between contracts?

[TheFaQQer]

Yep I understand that, so if my gross earnings into my ltd each month are 10k, I owe corp tax @ a rate of 30% right, i.e 3 (ignoring expenses).

However, if my debt is part of the company, with repayments of say £500 per month, then the way I see it is my taxable income is reduce to £9500. Therefore I figured it would be better to have them as part of the company.

Obviously though I am missing something, which is what I'm trying to understand. But I get the message, maybe this isn't the best place for my question.

Never mix business money with personal money.

Gross earnings are £10k a month. Pay your expenses out of that. Then pay the VAT over to the VAT man. Then save the 21% corporation tax. Then pay your salary (if you are taking one). Make sure you have any PAYE ready to hand over to HMRC too. Oh, and the employers NI and employees NI.

Then take the money (paying whatever tax is due on that). Use that to reduce your debt.