Is a cherished plate an investment for an LTD?

[BolshieBastard]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the plate will always belong to the DVLA. I'm pretty sure (90%) that DVLA can demand the plate back at any time.

I think this is a bit like those 0800 numbers. Lombard Direct tried to sue BT over the number they were renting but lost as these 'unique identifying references' eg number plates/telephone numbers are not the property of the customer.

Not quite correct. Yes, DVLA ultimately hold the right to the registration mark and you only have title to it so long as you continue to meet certain conditions ie registration is on a vehicle with a (required) current MOT, or you renew the retention certificate on the renewal date or you dont alter the spacing and shape of characters to make the registration look different etc.

DVLA cannot just 'take back' the registration if and when they please. You have to break the T&C's before they can do this.

[BolshieBastard]

Nope - see Car benefits: accessories - personalised car number plates

It's one of those anomalies you learn about at tax school!

PUMA

I dont give a toss one way or the other but hasnt the OP used Ltd company funds for a registration then, put that registration onto his personal car not the Ltd company's car?

Doesnt this "There is no bar to assessing a benefit if the employer pays for the re-registration of the director's own car" mean that where a company or employer pays for a registration plate on a non company car, HMRC can assess an BIK on the cost of the registration?

[PinkPoshRat]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the plate will always belong to the DVLA. I'm pretty sure (90%) that DVLA can demand the plate back at any time.

I think this is a bit like those 0800 numbers. Lombard Direct tried to sue BT over the number they were renting but lost as these 'unique identifying references' eg number plates/telephone numbers are not the property of the customer.

[moorfield]

(I am a number bod BTW!)

Good to know! I'm not, but I sat the AAT Personal Tax exam last week, so this stuff is still floating around in my head!

[THEPUMA]

Sorry you're quite right. I missed that point in the OP. I agree if it is held on a non-company car the BIK is the standard 20% per annum asset rule.

(I am a number bod BTW!)

PUMA

[moorfield]

Nope - see Car benefits: accessories - personalised car number plates

Yes granted, but that seems to apply to company cars. The OP (or his "mate") is using it on his private car not his company car - if I've not misunderstood - that's where the problem may be IMO.

There is no bar to assessing a benefit if the employer pays for the re-registration of the director's own car.

We need a number bod to sort this one out .... Interesting question though.

[THEPUMA]

I think it does, if it's used by the employee - unless that use is "wholly and exclusively" for business purposes, which, frankly, it isn't is it? - and I'm guessing that the number bods (correct me if I'm wrong number bods) would apply a usage benefit of 20% * orignal value just like they would other assets owned by the company.

Nothing wrong with the company owning the plate but (i) the employee may be liable to a benefit and (ii) the company may be liable to a capital gain if/when it sells it on.

I think this guy is trying to be too clever, another example of a silly expense claim and another person in front of me in the "Look at me Hector, I'm not dodgy, honest" queue.

Nope - see Car benefits: accessories - personalised car number plates

It's one of those anomalies you learn about at tax school!

PUMA

[moorfield]

A personalised number plate doesn't give rise to a benefit-in-kind if it remains owned by the company.

PUMA

I think it does, if it's used by the employee - unless that use is "wholly and exclusively" for business purposes, which, frankly, it isn't is it? - and I'm guessing that the number bods (correct me if I'm wrong number bods) would apply a usage benefit of 20% * orignal value just like they would other assets owned by the company.

Nothing wrong with the company owning the plate but (i) the employee may be liable to a benefit and (ii) the company may be liable to a capital gain if/when it sells it on.

Also the car as a comany vehicle it will be incurring a benefit for private use based on it's emissions rating and list price, and possibly a fuel benefit too if the company is paying for that.

I think this guy is trying to be too clever, another example of a silly expense claim, and another person in front of me in the "Look at me Hector, I'm not dodgy, honest" queue.

[kaiser78]

Cherished plates ? Tacky and chavvy.

[THEPUMA]

Personal use of company assets would generate a benefit in kind.

Selling an asset to yourself at less than market value would generate a tax charge on the difference - if tax evasion were that simple, everyone would be doing it!

A personalised number plate doesn't give rise to a benefit-in-kind if it remains owned by the company. Selling it to an employee at undervalue would, naturally, generate a tax charge.

PUMA

[Clare@InTouch]

Personal use of company assets would generate a benefit in kind.

Selling an asset to yourself at less than market value would generate a tax charge on the difference - if tax evasion were that simple, everyone would be doing it!

[DaveB]

Having a discussion with a contractor and I can't see where he is going wrong in the situation below but it just can't seem right.

2 Cars. Fun car and workhorse car. Workhorse is a company vehicle. He has standard LTD set up.

Now he believes that cherished plates are considered and investment so has bought a 4 character plate which I reckon is in the 5 - 7k mark throught the company.

Now he has put this on his fun car as in his mind it makes no difference if it is on the car or on paper. His plan is to keep it until the company folds and then sell it to himself/someone at lower price so actually showing a loss on the item and he gets to keep the plate.

Apart from the last bit about selling to himself at a loss which sounds a tad dodgy he is adamant his plan is fool proof. Where does it fall down? I guess a good plate could be classed as an investment as it is rare and old? Surely there is a twist somewere?

If he paid for it through the company and then used it on his personal car registered in his name then he could end up liable for tax and NI on the value of the plate. HMRC could consider it a disguised payment in the same way they went after all the city traders who used to get their bonuses in bullion or diamonds to avoid income tax on the cash.

[northernladuk]

Having a discussion with a contractor and I can't see where he is going wrong in the situation below but it just can't seem right.

2 Cars. Fun car and workhorse car. Workhorse is a company vehicle. He has standard LTD set up.

Now he believes that cherished plates are considered and investment so has bought a 4 character plate which I reckon is in the 5 - 7k mark throught the company.

Now he has put this on his fun car as in his mind it makes no difference if it is on the car or on paper. His plan is to keep it until the company folds and then sell it to himself/someone at lower price so actually showing a loss on the item and he gets to keep the plate.

Apart from the last bit about selling to himself at a loss which sounds a tad dodgy he is adamant his plan is fool proof. Where does it fall down? I guess a good plate could be classed as an investment as it is rare and old? Surely there is a twist somewere?