Reply to: Christmas party expenses

[THEPUMA]

Its not just the corporation tax its the Benefit in Kind taxation on the individual too.

Yes but the BIK position is relatively straightforward. Either you fulfil the eligibility criteria for exemption or you don't. Whereas the CT position is a little more ambiguous.

[MPwannadecentincome]

FWIW, technically I agree with Maslins that in most contractor cases, HMRC would disallow the cost for corporation tax purposes IF they opened an enquiry in the first place and had sufficient stamina to pursue the case for the amounts involved if you bothered to defend it. So in practise, the chances of £300 getting successfully challenged is negligible.

Its not just the corporation tax its the Benefit in Kind taxation on the individual too.

[THEPUMA]

The other thing to bear in mind is that if you accidentally go over the £150 per head, you just get the employees to make a contribution bringing it back under.

FWIW, technically I agree with Maslins that in most contractor cases, HMRC would disallow the cost for corporation tax purposes IF they opened an enquiry in the first place and had sufficient stamina to pursue the case for the amounts involved if you bothered to defend it. So in practise, the chances of £300 getting successfully challenged is negligible.

Regarding whether you can count a company secretary who doesn't receive any remuneration, I think in principle yes. They are an employee irrespective of whether or not they get paid for their role. This shouldn't happen in practise of course as they would be subject to the NMW legislation if they are not a director.

[MPwannadecentincome]

I don't really think any massively conclusive answer was reached, the rules clearly weren't designed with 1 person contractor firms in mind. HMRC's response via Sally sounded less plausible than most suggested by the rest of us.

If you were my client I would allow you to stick it through if you wanted to, but I would warn you that if HMRC looked at it they wouldn't like it (yes, always covering our own arses). Putting it through wouldn't be fraud, or negligent/careless, so you shouldn't suffer any penalties if HMRC did argue it.

So its safe to put it through as long as HRMC don't do an inquiry and the chances of getting an inquiry are what? And I suppose if the govt is desparate for some cash they can do an inquiry on everyone and net approx £35 from them all

[Maslins]

I don't really think any massively conclusive answer was reached, the rules clearly weren't designed with 1 person contractor firms in mind. HMRC's response via Sally sounded less plausible than most suggested by the rest of us.

If you were my client I would allow you to stick it through if you wanted to, but I would warn you that if HMRC looked at it they wouldn't like it (yes, always covering our own arses). Putting it through wouldn't be fraud, or negligent/careless, so you shouldn't suffer any penalties if HMRC did argue it.

[northernladuk]

I believe Maslin answered that one on page 4 did he not?

[Akeap]

Ok A "slight" deviation on the possible combinations of who wil be going out.

I as the Director want to take my Partner (who is not an employee past/present ie she's nothing to do with my LTD co apart from spending my divi's)

My Brother who happens to be the company secretary (but not employed or working through ltd co) wants to come to xmas bash with his wife.

Am I right in thinking that £150 for me, £150 for my partner as my guest.

£150 for my Secretary and £150 for his wife?

or does the Secretary need to be an actual employee?

Ill let you boggle on that one

[northernladuk]

to find out if she can take us out instead...

Us?? Whoohoo xmas party at last. Thought I wasn't going to get one this year. Place and time please....

[TheFaQQer]

No.

Perhaps.

[RichardCranium]

I think he'll probably let you go to 4 x £0.

Well, do you feel thoroughly vindicated in raising the question?

I'm now going to get the Missus - who is properly self employed in her own right - to find out if she can take us out instead...

[mudskipper]

Yes.

No.

[mudskipper]

Only Hector the tight c**t says it is not 4 x £150 but 1 x £0.

I think he'll probably let you go to 4 x £0.

[RichardCranium]

just tell me where I can get the beer at less than £1 a pint!

At that point in the discussion it appeared Director and Employee could both bring a guest = 4 people and permitted £150 for each.

£150 x 4 people = £600 minus cabs minus 4 Beefeater dinners leaves about £540 = 180 pints @ £3 per pint.

Only Hector the tight c**t says it is not 4 x £150 but 1 x £0.

As I said, merry ferkin humbug.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Never mind all the hostility - just tell me where I can get the beer at less than £1 a pint!

180 pints of beer it is, then.

.

Sorry I've not been reading CUK much lately what happened - Phil became Sally????

[dx4100]

Frankly for the sake of £31.50 CT saved for every £150 ...NO it's not, you know how HMRC like to go from a simple enquiry to a full blown IR35 enquiry.

Is this really going to be a tipping point though ?