Reply to: Bedouin - anybody come across them?

[Mitzyred]

Thanks again, i am just about to start a new contract and will continue the slog through my limited company as the EBTs seem today as too much of a risk!!! SAL let me know if you rcv any news on the EBT queries....

[Fred Bloggs]

Lots. Read the BN66 thread(s). The average tax claim there is around £140k for six years...

If you think these are a good idea right now, you're either selling one (very badly) or a fool.

And 77% is unattainble once you go over the HRT. It's either 68-72% or 82% if you do the dodgy close-the-co-every-three-years-and-don't-take-divis option, assuming Hector lets you do it.

HTH

It's my good self who posted the ~77% figure. I do not pay enough to be liable for HRT. But I do not do the pheonix ltd co thing either. I do have a spouse who is a 40% shareholder and I make extensive use of my SIPP in that 77% figure. I am 52 y.o. and I anticipate that by the time I am 60 to 65 I will be keeping close to 100% of my turnover by maxxing out the use of my SIPP as I'll have other sources of income from age 60. HTH.

[sal626]

No, not considering this as a punt at all.

Just pointing out the fact that BN66 legislation does not successfully challenge all EBT schemes. I am also following what happens with current queries hector have opened against EBT schemes. I used to be in a scheme that is being queried but hector have not had any success yet in challenging it. If the query is closed then I will reconsider EBT schemes again.

[Mitzyred]

Thanks all, for your feedback i guess you are all saying stay away as it is reasonable to assume that hector will pursue these schemes one day....

Sal626 are u considering this as a punt!!

Can anyone clarify if Hector does investigate that the going re-claim rate will 46% against the EBT which for me would be a loss of 20% from what i receive as Ltd.....

Any further advise is appreciated......

[Mitzyred]

Thanks all, for your feedback i guess you are all saying stay away as it is reasonable to assume that hector will pursue these schemes one day....

Sal626 are u considering this as a punt!!

Can anyone clarify if Hector does investigate that the going re-claim rate will 46% against the EBT which for me would be a loss of 20% from what i receive as Ltd.....

Any further advise is appreciated.

[Lumiere]

Wiki: The Bedouin (nomads) are communities of people who move from one place to another, rather than settling permanently in one location.

[sal626]

Point is, BN66 legislation cannot be used to pursue EBT schemes. Not being anal…it’s a significant point. Double taxation and EBT schemes are fundamentally different in how they are set up and operated.

Some EBT schemes have been queried, but nothing has come of these so far. A tax demand will only come if Hector can legally challenge EBT schemes and so far there have been two special commissioner rulings against hector – in the last one hector even withdrew their appeal against it.

[malvolio]

Why does everyone assume BN66 thread covers all kinds of EBT schemes? It doesn’t…that is specifically concerned with the double taxation scheme which is no longer being offered (as I understand). The EBT schemes like sanzar are different to that and not affected by BN66. Thats not to say there are no risks with EBT schemes, but I’m not aware of any schemes that have been successfully challenged and closed down…yet.

But in any case, I wouldn’t buy a tax planning product from some “lycra clad ladies” handing out flyers

Well OK, if we want to be totally anal about it, but the returns under the Monrpelier scheme was at the same kind of level and the tax declared in the same ball park, so the likely penalites are going to be roughly the same.

And the only reason the EBT's haven't been attacked is that Hector hasn't got around to them yet (he's still pushing for voluntary declaration of "offshore" earnings by UK Tax Residents though) and the typical clients are rather harder to push around than IT contractors. He'll get there one day.

Plus, of course, there will be a tax demand in time; it will come out of your estate when you shuffle off this mortal coil or leave the scheme, whichever comes first...

[scott_free]

Also, the income doesn't get declared on your self assessment, this rang alarm bells in my mind (EBT). At least with BN66 a scheme number was declared

[sal626]

Why does everyone assume BN66 thread covers all kinds of EBT schemes? It doesn’t…that is specifically concerned with the double taxation scheme which is no longer being offered (as I understand). The EBT schemes like sanzar are different to that and not affected by BN66. Thats not to say there are no risks with EBT schemes, but I’m not aware of any schemes that have been successfully challenged and closed down…yet.

But in any case, I wouldn’t buy a tax planning product from some “lycra clad ladies” handing out flyers

[malvolio]

Lots. Read the BN66 thread(s). The average tax claim there is around £140k for six years...

If you think these are a good idea right now, you're either selling one (very badly) or a fool.

And 77% is unattainble once you go over the HRT. It's either 68-72% or 82% if you do the dodgy close-the-co-every-three-years-and-don't-take-divis option, assuming Hector lets you do it.

HTH

[Mitzyred]

Bedouin

Hi all,

Interesting thread, i also met them at the Canary Wharf lyca show and again posed some questions about tax investigations etc... and was giving a near enough answer of "take your chances" and indicated to only use their scheme for a few years to stay under the radar of HMRC....

I have read their sales pitch which is pretty good and they do seem to be doing it a completely different way to umbrellas MSC etc...

I am looking for advice from seasoned contractors as to whether this risk is worth taking but also a few years down the line HMRC investigate and claim tax back...would they be claiming tax against the EBT loan so what would the worst case be i.e if you are receiving a £100k EBT what would HMRC take back 40% tax plus 11% NI or wot??

Are there any companies out there that are being invesigated for using this route and what is the timeframe HMRC can go back to claim or investigate taxes on an individual.....

Seeking advise as to whether go for an option like this or stay with limited and anyone pass me a better accountant as i don't get close to the 77% being mentioned!!!

Cheers

[zzamf]

Bedouin in Canary Wharf

They recently had lycra clad ladies peddling there Flyers outside Canary Wharf station & both caught my eye!

Asked a few questions via there head office in (Jersey or Isle of Man - can't remember which) & got to the bit that I am a VAT registered Sole Trader & what do I inform the VAT office, when my returns fall to 0 ?

Likewise what do I inform HMRC when midway through the year my earnings ( & taxable pay) drop like a stone.

All went silent, so maybe the dream is over & I have to pay the hefty amount I seem to be paying via my accountant.

Bedouin in my case were promising 84% retention of Gross.

[sal626]

ASMG, Penfolds…..

[Gino]

So which are the two that are being defended?