Reply to: Instant Dismissal Today

[original PM]

are you 100% sure you did not lock the drawer?

Interestingly you left the document in a drawer do you normally lock your drawers (sensitive documents or otherwsie?)

Is it common for a security guard to come around and try to put something in your drawer? especially when from what I can gather drawers should be locked as a matter of course

there is something slightly fishy here - or maybe I just think conspiracy theories are everywhere!

[Not So Wise]

Moreover, my agency said that because it was an instant dismissal, they will not pay me for the 4 weeks (as on the contract I have a 4 week notice period). I can't find anything on my contract pertaining to an instant termination and what happens in this situation.

You might not be able to find it but be very very surprised if it was not there, never seen a contract without "get out" clauses to cover agency/client if something serious happens that means contractor has to be fired right away and these clauses always overrule normal notice periods.

Sometimes these clauses are abused, but honestly in this case, looks like they are justifiably in their rights to invoke those clauses even though when reading between the lines it probably due to some Muppet being overly anal because those higher up (MP's) are putting pressure on everyone, because they don't want another expenses type scandal, but then rules are rules and just because everyone else (permies) are slack about the rules you should never be.

If an end client refuses to sign your t/s then the rest of your contract is not worth the paper it is written on unfortunately.

Though in this particular cases it is non issue, unless you are properly opted out signed time sheets are pretty imaterial if a disput arrises

[Amiga500]

I see. Yes, I have been working in gov most of my career and have always been very mindful of security. One mistake and this is what happens. If you only knew what the doc is you would probably laugh.

As for refs, I have already had 2 (ex)colleagues offer their services here so I think I'll be fine for refs. My agency said they will be happy to give a standard ref as all they heard was praise for my work as a PM.

Should have said someone printed and planted the document there to try and get rid of you

[Lumiere]

you loose your house

hoouse

.. indemnity insurance, limited liability ..

[Menelaus]

Sounds like a sledgehammer to crack a nut but da rulez is da rulez.

[darmstadt]

The last contract I did was similar in that ALL documents had to be locked away when you left the office at the end of the day as security went around and checked every office. Every time you left your office the door had to be locked and so on, and that was just a software company. The current contract which is government (not UK) I have had to sign a document of 9 pages which states that disclosure of the projects I am working on could send me to prison from 1 year to lifelong depending upon what I do with the information, oh, and lose my contract! Its not nice but not much you can do about it.

(Many years ago I also got escorted offsite from a government contract even though I was an innocent party but just happened to share an office with someone else and provided them with some information. Still got paid though!)

[NotAllThere]

...The person who handled this threatened that if anyone should ask why I left Client Co he would not hesitate to tell them that I do not take security seriously, which felt a bit like a threat to me...

If he actually was stupid enough to use that form of words in a reference, he'd be open to being sued. All he can say is "We got rid of Loew because he left a restricted document in an unlocked desk drawer".

I love the govt approach to these security breaches - summary dismissal/black mark on permanent record. All that will achieve is a higher turnover. It won't prevent breaches happening, and may well have a negative impact (cost) on projects. You're also likely to have breaches covered up, so that security holes in the procedures don't get revealed, until some terrorist group blows up another tube train.

Many pharmaceutical companies have a "no fault" approach to accidents. Their goal is to stop accidents happening. If you have a culture of punishment, then accidents don't get reported.

[pzz76077]

Wrong. The author sets the document's level; it's not up for debate how right or wrong it is set at. If it's marked restricted in any way it is to be locked away at close of play. That is an absolute rule. Why? Because apart from anything else, the cleaning staff won't have clearance to view restricted material, which they don't need because all restricted material will have been locked away at the close of play. Similarly, any uncleared personnel who legally or otherwise gain access to the office won't be able to read any restricted material. Understand?

He cocked up. He got smacked. End of.

I guess that this scenario is not to different to what would likely happen in a commercial organiation. I a secret formula or intellectual property got into the hands of the competition because you left a sensitive document lying around, you would be out the door, no appeal.

Similarly, I would imagine if a bank lost a load of money, and it turned out to be because some unauthorized person was able to pick up a paper containing bank codes left unsecured, then instant dismissal would be the result.

I guess the only difference would be that a commercial organisation would probably take you to court to recover their loss, you loose your house etc, whereas most gov agencies would just let you go.

PZZ

[malvolio]

A single breach of what is probably an unimportant uninteresting document marked secret by some public sector bozo who knows nothing left in an unmarked drawer in an office that is not open to the public.

Wrong. The author sets the document's level; it's not up for debate how right or wrong it is set at. If it's marked restricted in any way it is to be locked away at close of play. That is an absolute rule. Why? Because apart from anything else, the cleaning staff won't have clearance to view restricted material, which they don't need because all restricted material will have been locked away at the close of play. Similarly, any uncleared personnel who legally or otherwise gain access to the office won't be able to read any restricted material. Understand?

He cocked up. He got smacked. End of.

[Sockpuppet]

I should point out, that the doc they found in my drawer was incorrectly marked by someone else when it was actually supposed to be 'Unclassified'. Not sure if this makes a difference...

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Sorry.

Nope. I once set up some signals kit which when assembled you had to send a "test" message to the controlling station saying now working etc. I once checked the wrong box and flagged it as SECRET/FLASH instead of restricted.

It had to be treated as a secret flash message which means giving it to the comms room commander and keeping it on file for 5 (i think) years.

That's far too harsh. A single breach of what is probably an unimportant uninteresting document marked secret by some public sector bozo who knows nothing left in an unmarked drawer in an office that is not open to the public.

Doesn't matter. If its the lunch menu or the plans for a nuke if its got a protective classification on it then it should be handled as such.

Real tulipty way to lose a contract however have you ever wondered why all the security breaches are from the MOD and not the forces. Because the forces do tulip properly and don't say "never mind we'll let it fly this time".

I got fecked over for the message I sent and I never made the mistake again.

[thunderlizard]

It does seem harsh but right now anyone doing government work will be looking for security brownie points. Being able to say "we've got a track record of booting out people who leave their desk drawers unlocked even if nothing comes of it" will help them no end.

[KentPhilip]

Quite right too, and so they should. The rules were re-issued earlier this year and are quite clear. Summary dismissal for contractors and a record on your personnel file for staff.

They shouldn't be. They should know the rules too.

I disagree. I am sick of hearing about security breaches; the civil service gets the blame but it is usually 3rd parties. Like you.

It's not a threat, they are telling you not to use them as a reference.

Quite right too. Contract termination for a blatant breach of trust.

You've been summarily dismissed for a security breach and you want paid? From taxpayer's money, presumably. You should be ashamed of yourself; behaviour like this gives contractors a bad name.

You may well lose your clearance. It may be for a LONG time.

None. The author of a document chooses its classification, nobody else.

Evidently not.

Only THE AUTHOR can determine the security classification of a document. You chose to ignore the rules.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't include me.

I firmly agree with the rules: 3rd party contractors should ALWAYS be summarily dismissed for security breaches. (Especially the likes of EDS.)

That's far too harsh. A single breach of what is probably an unimportant uninteresting document marked secret by some public sector bozo who knows nothing left in an unmarked drawer in an office that is not open to the public.

Its hardly compromising national security now is it.

Common sense would suggest a reprimand and final warning perhaps, but not the end of the contract.

[shoes]

That's unlucky and altho strictly correct it is pointlessly following the letter of the law rather than applying any common sense to it. Maybe someones budget is becoming tighter than they thought.

Hey ho you live to fight another day. You made some money, you would have accepted the role if it was just for 5 months I dare say. Move on.

[RichardCranium]

today my client has terminated my contract on the grounds that I left a protectively marked document (it's a gov contract) in my drawer at work and did not lock it.

Quite right too, and so they should. The rules were re-issued earlier this year and are quite clear. Summary dismissal for contractors and a record on your personnel file for staff.

Suffice it to say everyone at the Client Co is shocked and appalled

They shouldn't be. They should know the rules too.

nor do I believe this kind of treatment is warranted

I disagree. I am sick of hearing about security breaches; the civil service gets the blame but it is usually 3rd parties. Like you.

The person who handled this threatened that if anyone should ask why I left Client Co he would not hesitate to tell them that I do not take security seriously, which felt a bit like a threat to me.

It's not a threat, they are telling you not to use them as a reference.

Moreover, my agency said that because it was an instant dismissal, they will not pay me for the 4 weeks (as on the contract I have a 4 week notice period).

Quite right too. Contract termination for a blatant breach of trust.

should the agency pay me for the 4 weeks notice and is there anything I can do as this dismissal did not even involve HR?

You've been summarily dismissed for a security breach and you want paid? From taxpayer's money, presumably. You should be ashamed of yourself; behaviour like this gives contractors a bad name.

Does anybody know if this is really the case? How will this affect my next gov contract, if at all?

You may well lose your clearance. It may be for a LONG time.

I should point out, that the doc they found in my drawer was incorrectly marked by someone else when it was actually supposed to be 'Unclassified'. Not sure if this makes a difference...

None. The author of a document chooses its classification, nobody else.

I see. Yes, I have been working in gov most of my career and have always been very mindful of security.

Evidently not.

One mistake and this is what happens. If you only knew what the doc is you would probably laugh.

Only THE AUTHOR can determine the security classification of a document. You chose to ignore the rules.

Thanks to you and to others who have replied for the encouraging words.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't include me.

I firmly agree with the rules: 3rd party contractors should ALWAYS be summarily dismissed for security breaches. (Especially the likes of EDS.)

[MaryPoppins]

Thanks to you and to others who have replied for the encouraging words.

I fully understand and accept that this is a reality which has happened.

However, in a strange way I also feel liberated. The contract was an hour's drive each way and the funny thing is I was thinking of looking around again anyway but no way did I expect or want it to end like this.

I kinda feel like I've been run over by a truck. The ironic thing is that I was also involved in my first car accident on the weekend (was able to walk away thankfully).

Sounds like fate to me! Or it would if I believed in all that gubbins. Good luck!!