Change of terminating notice in permanent job conditions

[expat]

Dave: you are aware that under UK employment law, notice periods are notoriously difficult to enforce, especially one that's unequal?
HR: er...
Dave: you're also aware that if I don't agree, and you give me notice, the chances are very high that I'd be able to sue you for wrongful dismissal?
He: er...
Dave: OK, think on that, see you Wednesday.

HR exists to further the interests of the company, not the employee. They will do their best to mislead you. They rely on most employees not being aware of the law.

Unfair, as in: you give 3 months notice because you want to leave in 3 months, they respond by giving you 1 months notice....

Re: HR, that's for sure.

[centurian]

Soon after you posted this, my HR manager came online:

Dave: i got my employment contract on Thursday
HR: yeah everyone did
Dave: the only major issue I have with it is the 3 month termination notice period
HR: it's been changed for all specialist/hard to fill roles
HR: particularly business critical roles
HR: can't expose the business to not having time to fill them and have continuity of cover like has happened previously
Dave: it just means i have to seriously think about what i'm going to do in the next 3 months
HR: in terms of going home?
Dave: yes
Dave: got some things to think about over the weekend
HR: well I'm in your office on Wed/Thurs we can talk about it then
Dave: ok

Will see how I go..

Explain the situation, but stand your ground. I can virtually guarantee that they will cave in.

If you have in your mind a leaving date, they you could always accept the new arrangement on the proviso that you will leave on that date (if it is less than 3 months).

That way, they effectively get 2-2.5 months notice, which gives them time to fill the role and know where they stand.

The alternative is that they give you one month's notice, open themselves up to an unfair dismissal claim and lose your skills and knowleddge all the quicker...

Their hand isn't strong enough and it won't take them long to work that out. They'll fold...

[NotAllThere]

Dave: you are aware that under UK employment law, notice periods are notoriously difficult to enforce, especially one that's unequal?
HR: er...
Dave: you're also aware that if I don't agree, and you give me notice, the chances are very high that I'd be able to sue you for wrongful dismissal?
He: er...
Dave: OK, think on that, see you Wednesday.

HR exists to further the interests of the company, not the employee. They will do their best to mislead you. They rely on most employees not being aware of the law.

When I quit my last job in the UK, at my exit interview I was asked, should they dismiss a problematic individual, whether I thought he would sue for wrongful dismissal.

Like agencies - HR are not on your side.

That being the case, I'd just tell them I'm leaving. Give them a date, and if they want to terminate earlier, get some legal advice before agreeing anything.

[cheezdog]

Just be honest and tell them what you're going to do anyway. That way they'll just roll over and accept it. Funny but when I was within a few days of handing in my notice on my last staff job the firm did the same thing, increasing notice from 1 to 3 months. The reason for this being that, at the time, quite a few folks were giving notice and going contract elsewhere. I went to see HR and I told them it was likely I'd be resigning within 2 weeks anyway if the contract I was chasing came off, so they just said "Fine, keep us informed of what you're doing and good luck". No problem at all, usually the truth is preferred I find.

Soon after you posted this, my HR manager came online:

Dave: i got my employment contract on Thursday
HR: yeah everyone did
Dave: the only major issue I have with it is the 3 month termination notice period
HR: it's been changed for all specialist/hard to fill roles
HR: particularly business critical roles
HR: can't expose the business to not having time to fill them and have continuity of cover like has happened previously
Dave: it just means i have to seriously think about what i'm going to do in the next 3 months
HR: in terms of going home?
Dave: yes
Dave: got some things to think about over the weekend
HR: well I'm in your office on Wed/Thurs we can talk about it then
Dave: ok

Will see how I go..

[Fred Bloggs]

Just be honest and tell them what you're going to do anyway. That way they'll just roll over and accept it. Funny but when I was within a few days of handing in my notice on my last staff job the firm did the same thing, increasing notice from 1 to 3 months. The reason for this being that, at the time, quite a few folks were giving notice and going contract elsewhere. I went to see HR and I told them it was likely I'd be resigning within 2 weeks anyway if the contract I was chasing came off, so they just said "Fine, keep us informed of what you're doing and good luck". No problem at all, usually the truth is preferred I find.

[richy]

I'm a programmer, specializing in the IVR/VoiceXML area, and it took them around 3 months to find me.. so I think they are trying to cover themselves while they find someone else. I should find out if they've done the same for everybody or just me..

Making it 3 months makes it very hard if you are looking for another job. Normally, would a company wait for you for 3 months for your current job to end?

yes, I worked for a video game company as a programmer who had 3month/3month standard for both parties. People moved on and their new places waited. It does feel too long for me tho.
rich

[centurian]

I've decided to move back to Australia in August, after some travel in July.

Excellent. One less competitor

Seriously, you may wish to argue that the fact they want to make it 3-months for you, but still only 1 month for them equates to an unreasonable alteration.

Of course, they may simply agree and offer 3-months both ways, but that might have bought you some time. Just make sure it isn't your sole argument.

[cheezdog]

I'm a programmer, specializing in the IVR/VoiceXML area, and it took them around 3 months to find me.. so I think they are trying to cover themselves while they find someone else. I should find out if they've done the same for everybody or just me..

Making it 3 months makes it very hard if you are looking for another job. Normally, would a company wait for you for 3 months for your current job to end?

[BrilloPad]

Wait till the 21st day then appeal in writing to HR.

That'll take you to the start of May.

The appeal will take a week or two and even if you lose refuse to accept the new contract. This mean that they will effectively terminate your contract - but they have to using 1 months notice.

So you get paid to at the worst case the start of June. Best case the middle/end.

That's what I'd do.

WHS

[NotAllThere]

Notice periods on permies are barely enforceable at all - to do with the fact you can't force someone to work. They're at their strongest during the payment cycle - i.e. you're paid monthly, so one month. A three month/one month is probably less enforceable than a three month/three month.

I'd appeal, and see how far that gets you.

[Sockpuppet]

Wait till the 21st day then appeal in writing to HR.

That'll take you to the start of May.

The appeal will take a week or two and even if you lose refuse to accept the new contract. This mean that they will effectively terminate your contract - but they have to using 1 months notice.

So you get paid to at the worst case the start of June. Best case the middle/end.

That's what I'd do.

[pmeswani]

I moved to the UK last September, and not finding any contracts, took on a permanent role. While it has been work and somewhat interesting, I haven't been that happy with my role, as it wasn't all that they told me in my interview (its quite common over here so i've heard). Also, as both life and travel is so expensive over here at the moment, plus my family and friends are back home, I've decided to move back to Australia in August, after some travel in July.

My termination notice period in my employment contract was 1 month for both parties, so I was going to give notice 6 weeks mid-May, and then finish up at the end of June.

On Friday I received in the post, an updated employment contract from the company, and the only noticeable difference I've found is that they've changed the notice period to 3 months for me, and 1 month for them. The contract says I have 21 days to appeal in writing, otherwise this will just take effect.

What do you think I should do? Should I just talk to HR on Tuesday and tell them the situation, and then give my 2.5 months notice?

An employment contract is only enforceable if it states in your original contract that you accept any reasonalbe future updates to the contract.

If you believe the conditions are unacceptable, terminate your employment and move on. If you don't mind not getting paid, hand in your notice and don't bother turning up for work the next day.

[cheezdog]

I moved to the UK last September, and not finding any contracts, took on a permanent role. While it has been work and somewhat interesting, I haven't been that happy with my role, as it wasn't all that they told me in my interview (its quite common over here so i've heard). Also, as both life and travel is so expensive over here at the moment, plus my family and friends are back home, I've decided to move back to Australia in August, after some travel in July.

My termination notice period in my employment contract was 1 month for both parties, so I was going to give notice 6 weeks mid-May, and then finish up at the end of June.

On Friday I received in the post, an updated employment contract from the company, and the only noticeable difference I've found is that they've changed the notice period to 3 months for me, and 1 month for them. The contract says I have 21 days to appeal in writing, otherwise this will just take effect.

What do you think I should do? Should I just talk to HR on Tuesday and tell them the situation, and then give my 2.5 months notice?