Reply to: Free lunch (is there such a thing?)

[blitter]

When you say 'everyone in the building', do you mean staff, or do you mean visitors as well. Not that I believe lunch is an IR35 issue but, if you could point out the bloke from Accenture sitting at the next table then that would support your argument.

Otherwise, it's back to snapping one off in the lunchbox...

The impression I got was anyone who was around could use it, as there were no checks done when I went for the interview and got a baguette on the way out...

What got me thinking was one of the special commissioners key facts on the Dragonfly case:

"Mr Bessell was able to use the onsite canteen and was invited to attend staff social functions."

So things like this are noticed and to some extent take an effect in an IR35 investigation.

[ratewhore]

When you say 'everyone in the building', do you mean staff, or do you mean visitors as well. Not that I believe lunch is an IR35 issue but, if you could point out the bloke from Accenture sitting at the next table then that would support your argument.

Otherwise, it's back to snapping one off in the lunchbox...

[BoredBloke]

Free lunch is common with the oil companies. When I worked at BP we found out that we could get a free lunch on our site and another much better one at site a short walk up the road.

[Chugnut]

That's a very generous gesture! How many diners?

Anyway, why not ask QDOS or the PCG? I'd imagine they've been asked similar things before. I'm sure I've seen advice in the past about avoiding the employee's subsidised canteen, etc. so why would this be any different?

I bet if the bloke in the Dragonfly had been doing the same, everyone would say "Well that was stupid, what was he thinking?".

[TheFaQQer]

There is no way for HMRC to verify that I take the free fruit.

Don't you believe it - see that big CCTV camera over your shoulder????

(Or alternatively, posting on the internet under your own name may not help - not that I think for a second that it would make too much of a difference)

It's been argued before that taking some employee only benefits, such as subsidised gym membership, would put you inside IR35. Where is the line between cheap gym membership and a free lunch?

I miss Mal.

[basshead]

If you store all the turds collected from not using the ClientCo bogs you can present them to HMRC as part of your IR35 defence.

[pmeswani]

And do use the toilets - your collegues will be thankful for that

I don't think they will be thankful. I reckon all the companies in the UK will be forced to put one of those 20p devices so that all contractors are protected by IR35.

[Turion]

How will HMRC know if you ate the free lunch?

You're being paranoid beyond belief - eat the lunch!

And do use the toilets - your collegues will be thankful for that

[Platypus]

In my next contract (going through my Ltd Co, contract has been deemed outside IR35), the workplace offers everyone in the building a free lunch each day.

I suspect in the eyes of HMRC if I was to partake in this, it is added evidence for them to call me an employee and argue that I am IR35 caught.

So... should I (reluctantly) steer clear in case of complications in a future HMRC investigation?

How will HMRC know if you ate the free lunch?

You're being paranoid beyond belief - eat the lunch!

[themistry]

I did some contract work at mcDonalds a few years back and each day the employees and contractors get a lunch voucher for the on site McD's.

There were some very fat people there.

Does this include you?

[Badger]

I did some contract work at mcDonalds a few years back and each day the employees and contractors get a lunch voucher for the on site McD's.

There were some very fat people there.

[blitter]

If it's queried, point out that you neither sought nor expected a free lunch. However, it seemed from the attitudes of those with whom you had to integrate for the successful accomplishment of your contractual obligations that your acceptance of the free lunch would have positive benefits by establishing an appropriate social context in which to build the working relationship without which you could not properly fulfil your client's requirements.

Just to be on the safe side, bill them for the time taken eating the free lunch. This makes it clear that the lunch was merely a burden imposed by the commercial necessity of working closely with the client team, and not something you would have chosen for yourself.

I like that idea... Thanks for the advice guys, I know it may have seemed like a stupid question but IMHO its safer to be paranoid about these things.

[pmeswani]

In my next contract (going through my Ltd Co, contract has been deemed outside IR35), the workplace offers everyone in the building a free lunch each day.

I suspect in the eyes of HMRC if I was to partake in this, it is added evidence for them to call me an employee and argue that I am IR35 caught.

So... should I (reluctantly) steer clear in case of complications in a future HMRC investigation?

Does your place of work keep records of who has the free lunch? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. I eat the free fruit at work. There is no way for HMRC to verify that I take the free fruit.

[NickFitz]

In my next contract (going through my Ltd Co, contract has been deemed outside IR35), the workplace offers everyone in the building a free lunch each day.

I suspect in the eyes of HMRC if I was to partake in this, it is added evidence for them to call me an employee and argue that I am IR35 caught.

So... should I (reluctantly) steer clear in case of complications in a future HMRC investigation?

If it's queried, point out that you neither sought nor expected a free lunch. However, it seemed from the attitudes of those with whom you had to integrate for the successful accomplishment of your contractual obligations that your acceptance of the free lunch would have positive benefits by establishing an appropriate social context in which to build the working relationship without which you could not properly fulfil your client's requirements.

Just to be on the safe side, bill them for the time taken eating the free lunch. This makes it clear that the lunch was merely a burden imposed by the commercial necessity of working closely with the client team, and not something you would have chosen for yourself.

[chris79]

Some people get too paranoid about IR35. Just eat the free lunch.*



* I am not qualified or experienced enough in this field to offer this as professional advice. I take no responsibility for actions caused directly or indirectly as a result of my posting.