Permie trouble

[SueEllen]

Good thinking! I can feel a good 4 day bout of flu coming on. Ooh and I seem to have lost that company laptop and Blackberry, which I'm sure they've lost the paperwork for!!

They won't have.

Two mates of mine tried that during the dot com crash at 2 different employers. One company went bust and the other was taken over but made staff redundant. They couldn't be bothered to pay their wages and/or expenses but could phone them up and chase them for their laptops.

Do you know what they threatened them with?

Not giving them references. Unfortunately they forgot they sacked their managers at the same time...............

I think you will be getting that contract soon in another part of the country.

[JoJoGabor]

Good thinking! I can feel a good 4 day bout of flu coming on. Ooh and I seem to have lost that company laptop and Blackberry, which I'm sure they've lost the paperwork for!!

[daviejones]

And 'make it up' in other ways

WHS

Fill your bag up with company stationery!!!!

[b0redom]

Just go and steal as much as you can carry from the stationary cupboard and eBay it.

[alantan]

I've been in the same position when I was a permie, owed around 3 grand of travel expenses. The short of it is that expenses incurred in duty are NOT covered by TUPE obligations.

[TheBigYinJames]

If you WANT to work at the new company, forget the £1000.

And 'make it up' in other ways

[Platypus]

If you WANT to work at the new company, forget the £1000.

Life's like that.

[NotAllThere]

You're probably screwed. Consult a lawyer, see if you can make money out of the situation and get back contracting!

[XLMonkey]

Ah, me old mate TUPE. Often mistaken for legislation that protects employees, it usually has the opposite effect.

To your question: TUPE obliges your new employer to provide you with substantially the same terms and conditions as your old employer, and it also obliges you to accept them (you don't have the option of getting redundancy). So, anything that forms part of your terms and conditions of employment will transfer.

On your expenses the position is unambiguous - they owe it to you - they are obliged to pay it. However, the position regarding commission payments is a bit of a funny one - because sometimes they do form part of your contract of employment and sometimes they don't. You would need to have a specialist advise you on this one, based on the exact terms and conditions, and working practices, that apply to your case (Citizens Advice would be able to do this).

The company going bust or not is irrelevant in this context - the acquiring company has to honour all of the debts and contracts of the old company anyway (otherwise there isn't anything to acquire). If, as you suggest, the directors took cash out of the company prior to declaring bankruptcy/going into administration, then they would be guilty of a criminal offence.

[JoJoGabor]

Already looking for another contract, but not much around!

[SueEllen]

Now the new company seems a great place to work, and I would like to give it a go, but basically have the hump because I have lost around £1000. Can anyone offer any advice?

Start looking for another contract.

[VectraMan]

My understanding is that everything relating to your employment (which should include expenses) is covered.

But IANAL.

Do you have somewhere (better than here) to get advice? Home insurance might cover employment related legal advice.

If it's true about the director's dividend and the company was heading into administration, then they'll be in some trouble.

[gingerjedi]

Ahh the security of a permy job...

No idea mate, this is a contractors site.

[JoJoGabor]

I knew I should not have quit contracting to go permie. I couldn't find a new contract so went permanenent and within 2 months the company has been bought out by a larger company who effectively put my original company into administration, and they have issued us with new contracts with the new company and that TUPE protection applies. However they have said that any money owed in commission and expenses will not be paid as the company effetively went bust.

I have heard from a source in accounting that the company directors paid themselves a large dividend from the company just before it wat bought out to safeguard their money, and then gave themselves a payrise to keep them going.

My understanding of TUPE is that all contractual obligations have to be honoured, including any outstanding expenses.

Now the new company seems a great place to work, and I would like to give it a go, but basically have the hump because I have lost around £1000. Can anyone offer any advice?