That's basically what I have been doing.
I have sent emails to HR and my direct manager informing them of my intended absence from site. I have never had any replies back saying "No" or had and questions asked.
Then out of the blue and email asking us to fill in a holiday request form and get it authorised...
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Reply to: Holiday Forms and D & C
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Previously on "Holiday Forms and D & C"
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Originally posted by Flat Eric View PostOK,
The HR department has asked to to get authorisation for all holidays from our line managers and has provided a form for such purposes..
What is the best way to approach this ?
As I said, I've no problem in informing the client of the days that I will not be on site but have never sought approval and up until now they have never required authorisation.
I know the HR lady is completely in the dark regarding IR35 legislation ant doesn't really understand the contractor-agent-client relationship. She sees us as employees.
I'm inclined to simply dump this in the agents lap and have them earn their %age but I also think the agent will simply side with the client. I'm no IR35 expert either but I'm sure that there would be ramifications for the agent should I be found to be under an IR35 contract although this may not be the case.
If they insist on this form being filled in and authorisation sought then probably going to have to terminate and ask for a renegotiation as my rate would have to rise to cover the risk.
Thoughts?
Mark.
Inform the client verbally of when you will not be available, but beyond that I wouldn't do anything. The person you work closest with on the project (what permies might call a "boss" or "manager") should then do whatever their organization needs to do to record that fact, if anything.
If you are found inside IR35, it's nothing to do with the agency - it's all down to you as an individual.
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Coming to a head....
OK,
The HR department has asked to to get authorisation for all holidays from our line managers and has provided a form for such purposes..
What is the best way to approach this ?
As I said, I've no problem in informing the client of the days that I will not be on site but have never sought approval and up until now they have never required authorisation.
I know the HR lady is completely in the dark regarding IR35 legislation ant doesn't really understand the contractor-agent-client relationship. She sees us as employees.
I'm inclined to simply dump this in the agents lap and have them earn their %age but I also think the agent will simply side with the client. I'm no IR35 expert either but I'm sure that there would be ramifications for the agent should I be found to be under an IR35 contract although this may not be the case.
If they insist on this form being filled in and authorisation sought then probably going to have to terminate and ask for a renegotiation as my rate would have to rise to cover the risk.
Thoughts?
Mark.
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Originally posted by Denny View PostOnly if your company is working direct to the client. If through an EB, then contact them on the headed paper instead, because your contract is with them not the end client. Then the EB can inform the client of any of your company absences.
Naturally, you should also informally inform the client, because that relationship is paramaount.
However, it occurs to me that if we followed the correct procedure the chances of the agency actual informing the client are slim.
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Originally posted by xoggoth View PostCan't see why one should not notify a client when you will not be around as a matter of curtesy though, else how can they plan properly? You would expect a builder doing your kitchen to tell you if he had to stop the job for a week. Like a lot of things this is not a real indicator of employment, but the stinking IR insist on treating it as though it is.
would you really expdect a builder to let you know when and when not they were turning up??? i need the number for your builder.
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...and I've been employing PMs for about 15...
No sweat, I was just clarifying matters for the less experienced among us.
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Originally posted by malvolio View PostTheoretically true, but I would be pretty upset if one of my team failed to let me know they weren't going to be in, and they would be likely to find their "leave" to have been extended rather more permanently. I don't trust most EBs to sort out renewals on time, much less manage clerical details at that level.
There is a saying that you shouldn't let the taxation tail wag the business dog. Keeping your end client happy and informed - even if informally and supported by formal notice - is probably slightly more relevant to ongoing income protection.
I was referring to the formal arrangements only in my answer. But, seriously, Mal, do you honesty think I would suggest that a contractor takes off simply by writing on letterhead to the EB without having first informally said something to the PM? Provided that informal notification doesnt' amount to a permission, it would be a much better idea to inform the PM otherwise the EB will simply ring the contractor on receiving the notification and ask if the PM has approved it (likely attitude of an EB who is bound to see it as a permission) before accepting it as a formal notification they can place on file. The last thing they want to do is upset their client reps.
Do credit me with some intelligence. I have been a PM myself for nearly 8 years.
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Originally posted by Denny View PostOnly if your company is working direct to the client. If through an EB, then contact them on the headed paper instead, because your contract is with them not the end client. Then the EB can inform the client of any of your company absences. ...
There is a saying that you shouldn't let the taxation tail wag the business dog. Keeping your end client happy and informed - even if informally and supported by formal notice - is probably slightly more relevant to ongoing income protection.
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Originally posted by thunderlizard View PostThat's a good attitude. Going native is a bad thing for many reasons, only one of which is IR35. If there are any bigger suppliers on site, maybe use whatever they do as a guide. A communication on your own branded stationery, telling them what they need to know, ought to send out the right signals.
Same principle as what applies to travel expenses. This should also be through the EB with VAT added, if your co is VAT registered, not on co letterhead direct to the client for payment, or reimbursed penny for penny on client admin forms.Last edited by Denny; 6 December 2007, 00:57.
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Originally posted by Flat Eric View PostI'm not suggesting that I don't inform the client. I just don't want to be filling in their forms which are the same ones that the permies are required to fill in.
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What does D&C stand for?
I thought it was a medical term for a scrape...
<shudders>
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I'm not suggesting that I don't inform the client. I just don't want to be filling in their forms which are the same ones that the permies are required to fill in.
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Originally posted by xoggoth View PostCan't see why one should not notify a client when you will not be around as a matter of curtesy though, else how can they plan properly? You would expect a builder doing your kitchen to tell you if he had to stop the job for a week. Like a lot of things this is not a real indicator of employment, but the stinking IR insist on treating it as though it is.
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