No agency KID Document provided!

[eek]

I'm trying to get answers for simple questions to see if there appears to be a loss of earnings.

When I did an inside contract before the interview the agency sent me an email of an estimate of how much I would get if I went through them or if I went through an umbrella. They were able to explain over the phone and in writing why there were differences in figures and what each deduction meant.

Then before I got the actual contract I got two further emails with better estimates of the deductions that would be made. I chose them over an umbrella as I got slightly more money and could use a pension provider I already had a pension with. (They actually screwed up my tax so I got a load of money back for one tax year.)

My point is that whether the OP knew or not is irrelevant here.

The fact is that if an agency is playing games with advertised rates an appropriate KID is required to explain what the rate is, where the money needs to go and what you will eventually end up receiving in your pay packet.

KIDs were created to solve this issue so

1) they should be being used
2) there should be serious consequences for not sending them out at the appropriate time when decisions are being made on which contract should I take.

Now in your case clearly everything was done correctly but that isn't always the case. Literally the only thing I've received so far is a document say £x00 a day for a 7 hour day and a request to pick an FCSA umbrella (you can guess who that is)..

[SueEllen]

Now the agency has already been found guilty of breaking the law. The only question remaining is how / can the OP profit from the situation.... It would be rather funny (and a great incentive for agencies not to screw things up) if the agency ended up with a large NI and holiday pay bill for not following simple processes.

Another question is when did contractorlifer finish working with the agency?

And have contractorlifer complained to the agency AND umbrella that they have made deductions from their wages?

[SueEllen]

No, I suspect the OP knew the assignment rate for the job and the hours per day but didn't receive the explanation of what it meant.

I'm trying to get answers for simple questions to see if there appears to be a loss of earnings.

When I did an inside contract before the interview the agency sent me an email of an estimate of how much I would get if I went through them or if I went through an umbrella. They were able to explain over the phone and in writing why there were differences in figures and what each deduction meant.

Then before I got the actual contract I got two further emails with better estimates of the deductions that would be made. I chose them over an umbrella as I got slightly more money and could use a pension provider I already had a pension with. (They actually screwed up my tax so I got a load of money back for one tax year.)

[eek]

I can understand that as a point of view, but if the agent says "this is the gross rate", then not sure what else they can say.
They are paying out an amount. For some contracts that could be going to an umbrella, for others it could be to an Ltd. I don't know how the agent can say what your take home will be, so they can only quote the gross.
This is why I'm asking the questions.
If he agreed a gross rate with the agent, and the agent is passing on that gross rate to the umbrella, then in my mind, he should be talking to the umbrella.
If the agent didn't say it was a gross rate, or is taking NI/AL/etc out of it before passing it on, then to me there's a case.

So, without our expert knowledge go and ask a random person in the street what "Gross rate" means?

The law says that agencies are required to provide the appropriate Key Information Document

Providing a 'Key information document' for agency workers: guidance for employment businesses (publishing.service.gov.uk) because

From 6 April 2020, employment businesses must give all new agency workers a key information document before agreeing contractual terms. In practice, this means a key information document will need to be one of the first things an employment business gives agency workers

And equally KID only exist because the only legal rate that can be advertised is a PAYE one - the whole point KIDs were introduced was to allow agencies to play games and advertise rates which aren't PAYE....

Now the agency has already been found guilty of breaking the law. The only question remaining is how / can the OP profit from the situation.... It would be rather funny (and a great incentive for agencies not to screw things up) if the agency ended up with a large NI and holiday pay bill for not following simple processes.

[WTFH]

Without any explanation of what the rate means it's possible to argue that the advertised rate was the PAYE rate and that the agency (not the umbrella) is responsible for Employer NI payments.

The whole point of a KID is to explain what happens to the £x00 in the paperwork - without that explanation, it requires a lot of acquired knowledge to know what is actually going to happen.

How it would play it at an employment tribunal is an interesting question that I think a lot of people would love to see the end result of (is the agency at all responsible, can it be passed to the umbrella??? are questions we don't know the answer to). And unless the end result is a sane response it would render KIDs irrelevant..

I can understand that as a point of view, but if the agent says "this is the gross rate", then not sure what else they can say.
They are paying out an amount. For some contracts that could be going to an umbrella, for others it could be to an Ltd. I don't know how the agent can say what your take home will be, so they can only quote the gross.
This is why I'm asking the questions.
If he agreed a gross rate with the agent, and the agent is passing on that gross rate to the umbrella, then in my mind, he should be talking to the umbrella.
If the agent didn't say it was a gross rate, or is taking NI/AL/etc out of it before passing it on, then to me there's a case.

[eek]

No disrespect, but your answers are confusing.
You've looked at the legislation, but not gone after the umbrella?

How much of the rate the agency agreed with you was passed on to the umbrella company? (not what went into your personal bank account, but what went to the umbrella)

Who took the NI & AL out of the amount?

If the agent passed 100% of the agreed rate to the umbrella, then what loss of earnings is the agent responsible for?

Without any explanation of what the rate means it's possible to argue that the advertised rate was the PAYE rate and that the agency (not the umbrella) is responsible for Employer NI payments.

The whole point of a KID is to explain what happens to the £x00 in the paperwork - without that explanation, it requires a lot of acquired knowledge to know what is actually going to happen.

How it would play it at an employment tribunal is an interesting question that I think a lot of people would love to see the end result of (is the agency at all responsible, can it be passed to the umbrella??? are questions we don't know the answer to). And unless the end result is a sane response it would render KIDs irrelevant..

[WTFH]

I reported the agency, who didn’t provide me with a KID.

No disrespect but I’ve looked at the legislation in great detail and there has been a documented breach by EAS.

I just want to understand if there is a case for recovery of loss of earnings due to my not having been provided with a KID document and therefore not able to make an informed decision about agreeing to the agency contract.

No disrespect, but your answers are confusing.
You've looked at the legislation, but not gone after the umbrella?

How much of the rate the agency agreed with you was passed on to the umbrella company? (not what went into your personal bank account, but what went to the umbrella)

Who took the NI & AL out of the amount?

If the agent passed 100% of the agreed rate to the umbrella, then what loss of earnings is the agent responsible for?

[eek]

So you were working and had no information no what you should have been earning per day? And didn't know the number of hours per a day you should be working?

No, I suspect the OP knew the assignment rate for the job and the hours per day but didn't receive the explanation of what it meant.

For reference I've just received a contract that says £x00 a day for a 35 hour week - I also should have received a KID at this moment to explain what is happening (i.e. the deductions an umbrella firm will make) but I haven't.

Now I know exactly what I was signing up to but it's not my job to tell the agency what it needs to do. They can discover that the painful way when I finish this contract if they don't do things correctly...

[SueEllen]

So you were working and had no information no what you should have been earning per day? And didn't know the number of hours per a day you should be working?

[contractorlifer]

I reported the agency, who didn’t provide me with a KID.

No disrespect but I’ve looked at the legislation in great detail and there has been a documented breach by EAS.

I just want to understand if there is a case for recovery of loss of earnings due to my not having been provided with a KID document and therefore not able to make an informed decision about agreeing to the agency contract.

[WTFH]

I was provided with a document from the agency which I signed, indicating I would be earning X amount per day for the duration of the project. This wasn’t a KID document, I wasn’t even aware of KID documents and the legislation as I had been LTD for the last 15+ years.

Upon receiving my payslips after a month or so I realised they were deducting the 15% Employers NI and Apprenticeship Levy from my gross rate.

The Flow was: Client > Agency > Umbrella Co > Contractor

Who did you report to the EAS?

I would expect an umbrella to deduct NI and AL, along with relevant taxes, as they would be paying you a net salary into your personal bank account.

[contractorlifer]

I was provided with a document from the agency which I signed, indicating I would be earning X amount per day for the duration of the project. This wasn’t a KID document, I wasn’t even aware of KID documents and the legislation as I had been LTD for the last 15+ years.

Upon receiving my payslips after a month or so I realised they were deducting the 15% Employers NI and Apprenticeship Levy from my gross rate.

The Flow was: Client > Agency > Umbrella Co > Contractor

[WTFH]

Hi,

I worked for a company earlier in the year where no KID was provided showing downstream deductions. After realising a month or so into the contract that they were making illegal deductions, I reported them to EAS and they were found to be in breach of legislation. Do I have a case for recovery of loss of earnings for the duration of the contract due to their not adhering to the legislation?

What deductions were illegal?
Did you receive pay slips from them?

When you say you worked for a company, can you explain the flow between the end client and you

[contractorlifer]

Hi,

I worked for a company earlier in the year where no KID was provided showing downstream deductions. After realising a month or so into the contract that they were making illegal deductions, I reported them to EAS and they were found to be in breach of legislation. Do I have a case for recovery of loss of earnings for the duration of the contract due to their not adhering to the legislation?